Tales from the Dawn

It's that time again - the latest selection of stories for the expansion are now being added to the Lodestone, with the first one now up, fittingly about Venat - 'A Friendship of Record.'

A few interesting things:

the identity of the model for the Watcher was the Chief Archivist of Ananemsis Aynder, and, a little bit of Ancient social norms are revealed, namely, the social traditions surrounding their masks and when it was appropriate to take them off - removing their mask was basically a signal to others they were about to make a big decision, asking someone for help, or when they're in the private company of friends and family. No wonder as the Ascians they continued their obssession with them.

There is a brief reference to WoL!Azem too, but it seems Venat was even more of a hellraiser in the role - no wonder the WoL is like they are, like teacher like student. ;)

Can't wait for the rest! :D

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It's that time again - the latest selection of stories for the expansion are now being added to the Lodestone, with the first one now up, fittingly about Venat - 'A Friendship of Record.'

A few interesting things:

the identity of the model for the Watcher was the Chief Archivist of Ananemsis Aynder, and, a little bit of Ancient social norms are revealed, namely, the social traditions surrounding their masks and when it was appropriate to take them off - removing their mask was basically a signal to others they were about to make a big decision, asking someone for help, or when they're in the private company of friends and family. No wonder as the Ascians they continued their obssession with them.

There is a brief reference to WoL!Azem too, but it seems Venat was even more of a hellraiser in the role - no wonder the WoL is like they are, like teacher like student. ;)

Can't wait for the rest! :D

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ten characters

emet did call the seat of azem a bunch of oddballs lol. besides that it was a nice short read with ancient tidbits.

10 characters

A few interesting details

• There seems to be some sort of a '' truth '' Venat realized about our existence that seemed to have a profound effect on her. This was also referenced in Endwalker, though back then I thought it was just Venat waxing poetic about life, but now it's more than that. I wonder if we are ever to know the details of that theory turned truth.
• Her obsession with existence and life in general is very ancient of her.
• Venat met Azem during her journeys. I think that's neat, that Azem wasn't part of some elite ancient network of potential Convocation members. Not that such a thing exists in canon, but what I mean is that Azem seems to have been just some random person nobody knew about, not some sort of a prestigious popular ancient, who was dragged to the convocation by Venat.
• '' And my replacement would benefit greatly from the opportunities granted by the appointment. '' I wonder what Venat meant by this. What opportunities exactly?
• Overall it seems like the two Azem's we know about didn't exactly embrace their role as a member of the convocation, and their title was irrelevant compared to their main interest of journeying and helping people out.

I don't really see the point in spoiler tagging when there's only one chapter out and people can read it in five minutes, to be honest.

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Unable to find the words, the archivist retreated into ritual. He held out a crystal—as he had countless times before—upon which was stored the last chapter of cosmological wisdom Venat had sought. Though she had spoken of its importance, he suspected she withheld the entire truth. Of her glimpse into the future, she had offered precious little.

"What we anticipate and what comes to pass need not be the same," she had once said. "'Tis best we work towards the greatest good without foreknowledge which might cloud our judgment."

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The choices of the writers in how to present Venat's character continue to kinda confuse me. This segment seems to confirm that Venat willfully withheld her foreknowledge of what would (or, I suppose, could) happen after the Sundering from her followers, and though it's not as explicit, the narrator doesn't seem to have any awareness of Meteion and the true cause of the Final Days, either. This makes her look pretty manipulative.

And I don't mind Venat being manipulative, but it's weird, because the story obviously wants us to see her as a sympathetic character. And it would have been very easy to make her more sympathetic, with no cost to the rest of the narrative, by simply writing "oh, she told them everything and they accepted it and agreed with her".

So why didn't they?

This does confirm something that I know some people were convinced wasn't true (mainly to assert preconceived bias) that yes, Venat's followers knew exactly what was at stake with the Sundering plan. They wanted Venat to not be Hydaelyn's heart because, in the event that they failed, their little opposition party would pretty much immediately die out; Venat was the real galvanizing force, the tip of the spear, and without her then they couldn't possibly continue. I've been in enough political campaigns to know exactly how they feel there, it's very difficult to keep going once the person you rallied around is gone, even if everyone still agrees on all the core principles. That further suggests either that they had designated survivors in case Plan Hydaelyn failed, or that the heart was the single most at-risk person in the whole plan; that it was tangibly possible that she would die and nobody else would.

Yes, they didn't know about Meteion, but they don't need to, because it's every other part that decides what they do; they know that Zodiark must live because without him the End of Days starts up again, but they also know that using Zodiark as they are with the sacrifices is basically in raw opposition to what the world needs; you can't move on if everyone's sacrificing everything to the altar of recapturing what once was. The revelation of 'the source of the End of Days is intelligent, and also Fandaniel's fault' is literally inconsequential to them, because the important part is 'this planet cannot continue as it is going'.

None of this is really new information in and of itself; it's all just confirming unarguably what we were already told, and most people already grasped during the Omega quests, that yes, Venat's crew knew exactly what Plan Hydaelyn would entail, and just how heavy it would be. They weren't scared of the ramifications of succeeding; they were scared of failing.

But while it is a very nice story, it's the absolute worst pick for an opener in my book. Given how much of Endwalker was about moving on from the past, freeing ourselves from its shackles and carving our own way into the future, we sure are spending an awful lot of stories stuck in that past.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Yes, they didn't know about Meteion, but they don't need to, because it's every other part that decides what they do; they know that Zodiark must live because without him the End of Days starts up again, but they also know that using Zodiark as they are is basically in raw opposition to what the world needs; you can't move on if everyone's sacrificing everything to the alter of recapturing what once was. The revelation of 'the source of the End of Days is intelligent, and also Fandaniel's fault' is literally inconsequential to them, because the important part is 'this planet cannot continue as it is going'.

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You don't think it's kinda unethical to not give all the information to people who are literally giving up their lives (and future lives) to you?

Venat's followers were aware of the immediate method and intentions of the plan, but if they had known the cause of the Final Days or the specific consequences of the Sundering, some might've felt differently about things and not done something as extreme as commit suicide to advance her goals. I know that you personally only really process the events of the Sundering as a vague allegory or whatever, but if you look at the situation from an even slightly grounded perspective, it's incredibly conceited and disrespectful of their agency.

Like in a lot of Endwalker, the writers seem to be glossing over the moral dissonance within the scenario they created by just flooding the text with vague positivity. It's a little gross. And again, frustrating because it would have been incredibly easy to just not create that dissonance and make Venat come across in the way they wanted.

I was saying the other day that I wish we had a Tales from the Dawn that goes over the time period of the Final Days. Ask and ye shall receive. My thoughts:


The Bad:
I would've preferred a point of view from someone who isn't so enamored by Venat that he's kissing the ground she walks upon. The view we got also didn't exactly go over everything that happened and the whole situation during that time with everyone's thoughts, but it's something at least.

I think Venat's continued withholding of information isn't a good idea and I don't know why the writers keep doubling down on it. I think all of Elpis' storyline would have been neatly tied with a bow had Elidibus' warning that you can't change the past been a prophecy and that everyone except for the WoL lost their memories. It would lead to a stronger Venat character who did all the things she would have done anyway without the benefit of outsider knowledge, make her less ambiguously good, and removed the complicated timeline nonsense.


The Good:
It confirmed my suspicions since ShB that Amaurotine society wouldn't be able to move forward after creating their own god, and that it factored into Venat's decisions.

It also confirmed that Venat's beliefs led to her wandering the world, helping people out, and solidifying her conviction while also giving her a viewpoint different from the rest of the Convocation.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

It confirmed my suspicions since ShB that Amaurotine society wouldn't be able to move forward after creating their own god, and that it factored into Venat's decisions.

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That's another thing. The story tells us the reasoning of Venat's faction in abstract, but it still keeps the details of the scenario super vague. Why was it a sure thing they'd never move forward? It makes it come across as mass-murder based on a vibe. Why not elaborate a bit?

I can understand why you'd want to keep it simple in the MSQ, but this story would have been a great chance to at least show-not-tell the basis for the faction's beliefs and expand on the scenario given at the end of Elpis. Were the sacrifices sapient beings? Or if they weren't, maybe the Amaurotines haste in trying to bring back their old world would have prematurely killed the planet again? Or was Zodiark not actually able to bring the dead back and would have just needed more and more sacrifices forever? Or maybe Zodiark had tempered the populations slightly and made future change literally impossible? Give us something. It can't have been just about dynamis stuff or whatever, because her followers didn't even know about Meteion, apparently.

Since they're not tonally pivoting to make Venat come across as morally grey (or at least, not here), it would be so easy to elaborate slightly and have her come across more like the heroic figure they apparently intend instead, but they're just not doing it. I don't get it!

So, ultimately they stuck with the lore of the Anyder cutscene in ShB where they didn't know anything beyond the plan was to pacify Zodiark. Glad to have further confirmation to end that debate.

I still find it problematic their fervent pursuit of the future was at the cost of leaving the 75% who'd sacrificed themselves in indefinite purgatory. I suppose if the other 11 people were as enthralled with Venat as the Watcher was that'd explain a lot.

I was hoping for a Watcher focused short story for Venat, but this one was disappointing. I didn't realize at least 2/3 of it would be him going on endlessly about what a brilliant and perfect jewel she was.

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Originally Posted by Lurina

That's another thing. The story tells us the reasoning of Venat's faction in abstract, but it still keeps the details of the scenario super vague. Why was it a sure thing they'd never move forward? It makes it come across as mass-murder based on a vibe. Why not elaborate a bit?

Were the sacrifices sapient beings? Or if they weren't, maybe the Amaurotines haste in trying to bring back their old world would have prematurely killed the planet again? Or was Zodiark not actually able to bring the dead back and would have just needed more and more sacrifices forever? Or maybe Zodiark had tempered the populations slightly and made future change literally impossible? Give us something. It can't have been just about dynamis stuff or whatever, because her followers didn't even know about Meteion, apparently.

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Yeah, I kept thinking through each of those possibilities during ShB and it boggles the mind why they decided to sit on it for so long and end up giving us the Dynamis response they did in the EW MSQ. Elaborating on the consequences to Amaurotine society and the future of the Star because of Zodiark's creation, making a satisfactory explanation to why Hydaelyn needs to shackle Him, and making Venat lose her memories at Kairos with the others, only for them all to remember together after death would have made the end to Endwalker a lot better in my opinion.

They gave us a lot of complicated lore in Shadowbringers so I don't think that explaining it in the MSQ in Endwalker in a better way would be worse than what we got with a vague explanation of the events in a not entirely canon condensed cutscene after introducing an entirely new form of magic we had no concept for before. We had a whole lecture scene in Sharlayan about different types of aether and I'd be all for the game sitting us down again like that to explain why people did the things they did if it makes more people understand the game and characters' motivations better.