Ninja at 66 feels more complex than Samurai at 90

The removal of Kaiten and abilities tied to Third Eye while making Midare Setsugekka a guaranteed auto-crit has gutted the job of any semblance of nuance or complexity but I guess the good news is Ninja is sort of like Samurai used to be in that Mudras require a little bit of critical thinking (by no means the level that Kenki management used to have but it's something)

Samurai literally feels no different at level 90 than it does at level 50, it's unintuitive, clunky, and just plain unfun to play these days. Roulettes still put me to sleep but at least Mudras give me the incentive to stay awake otherwise I can't do them.

Samurai I can mash with my eyes closed. Perhaps the dev team was stealth tweaking the job to make it accessible for blind people?

No? Yeah, probably not.

You should've seen how Ninja was in Shadowbringers. We had a DoT and it was perfect, we could also Doton and immediately Hide to refresh our mudras, but apparently Square Enix hates fun.

Edit: Also, I want Kaiten back, too. As well for Tenka Goken going back to having a cone attack.
Edit 2: I want Warrior to have two cone aoes as intended.

you should play smn level below 90. Even war seem more complex than smn himself.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

You should've seen how Ninja was in Shadowbringers. We had a DoT and it was perfect

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Wut? It was just another ability that you used in the burst window; it didn't interact with the rest of the kit in any way. What about it was "perfect?" In fact, it was kind of weird that the duration was so short relative to 1-minute burst windows. Also, the animation was bad. The EW 90 opener feels a million times better than the ShB 80 opener (and I liked the ShB 80 opener).

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

we could also Doton and immediately Hide to refresh our mudras, but apparently Square Enix hates fun.

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I'm not sure what was particularly fun about pre-pull Doton beyond trolling the static by walking to the absolute closest point to the boss that doesn't pull it (and I can still do that without pre-pull Doton). Not getting to do it in yolo-pull PF/DF groups was anti-fun.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

you should play smn level below 90. Even war seem more complex than smn himself.

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It's definitely true that EW SMN isn't mechanically complex, but I found it very satisfying the play.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Wut? It was just another ability that you used in the burst window; it didn't interact with the rest of the kit in any way. What about it was "perfect?" In fact, it was kind of weird that the duration was so short relative to 1-minute burst windows. Also, the animation was bad. The EW 90 opener feels a million times better than the ShB 80 opener (and I liked the ShB 80 opener).


I'm not sure what was particularly fun about pre-pull Doton beyond trolling the static by walking to the absolute closest point to the boss that doesn't pull it (and I can still do that without pre-pull Doton). Not getting to do it in yolo-pull PF/DF groups was anti-fun.


It's definitely true that EW SMN isn't mechanically complex, but I found it very satisfying the play.

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Shadow Fang was just basically a way to punish you if you let Huton fall off since it's 1 min recast was depend on having it up the whole time , unless you have to actually manage a DoT like in ST and expansions b4 that then ya it was just a filler move in your burst . I did like the animation though but I like the Raijus more :p

I was kinda annoyed about Doton at first but then after a week I realize I liked it better the way it is now, I don't have to wait for tanks in dungeons to pull everything and pick a spot to start attacking ..... and come on unless you were in a static no tank would ever pull a boss into doton in PF/DF lol

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Originally Posted by Ilyn

and come on unless you were in a static no tank would ever pull a boss into doton in PF/DF lol

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I'm still trying to get tanks in expert roulette not to pull mobs out of Doton :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I'm still trying to get tanks in expert roulette not to pull mobs out of Doton :rolleyes:

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not as bad as seeing 90% of ninjas using doton on bosses

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Originally Posted by Rekun

The removal of Kaiten and abilities tied to Third Eye while making Midare Setsugekka a guaranteed auto-crit has gutted the job of any semblance of nuance or complexity but I guess the good news is Ninja is sort of like Samurai used to be in that Mudras require a little bit of critical thinking (by no means the level that Kenki management used to have but it's something)

Samurai literally feels no different at level 90 than it does at level 50, it's unintuitive, clunky, and just plain unfun to play these days. Roulettes still put me to sleep but at least Mudras give me the incentive to stay awake otherwise I can't do them.

Samurai I can mash with my eyes closed. Perhaps the dev team was stealth tweaking the job to make it accessible for blind people?

No? Yeah, probably not.

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Have you ever considered that maybe you're just too good at this game?

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Originally Posted by Fable_Frost

Have you ever considered that maybe you're just too good at this game?

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I'm definitely *not* too good at this game, and even I find the new Samurai mind numbingly dull. I don't have to pay attention - and I always pay attention, not being Too Good. They made it too flat and too simple, and that's saying a lot, if I even think so.

People in these forums make the wildest claims sometimes.

Remembering mudra is not difficult. Lv 66 NIN has 2 ninjustu that even matter in single target and 2 for aoe, and all you have to do is pay attention to your trick attack or doton timer to know which one to use. Hardly anything about lv. 66 nin can be optimized as long as you keep your abilities on cd.

Lv. 90 SAM requires you to position properly for casting iajutsu while dodging mechs, knowing when damage is coming to maximize Third Eye Kenki regen and damage mit, and use Hagakure to properly align your abilities to their maximum potential. SAM is very deep at 90 if you look for it. Critting, btw, does not make you any more skillful at the game, it just means you roll rng better which is out of your control and entirely in the game's code to determine given how much savage aim you stuff into your gear (which also doesn't make you skillful).


SAM has always been incredibly easy to pick up since SHB. It's called having a low skill floor. But the skill floor and ceiling are definitely not the same level for a lot of these jobs and Samurai remains to be one of them. The real reason for these five bajillion threads is because Kaiten's cuckoo crazy cool animation isn't in the game anymore and Tenka Goken isn't a cone and everyone is having a fit.