Divine Veil

What's the deal with divine veil needing a heal to proc its effect? It doesn't make sense considering the other tank's AOE mitigations like Dark Missionary and Shake It Off don't require a condition to be met before the effect takes place. It's even more frustrating considering regeneration heals like Regen and Kardia effects don't seem to proc the shield either. Sometimes the PLD or healer has to go out of their way to use a GCD heal to activate divine veil even when healing isn't needed.

Divine Veil is the original tank AoE mitigation, so has a couple of more nuanced aspects than the other tanks. The biggest issue is that the PLD doesn't get any benefit from Divine Veil, not the GCD heal requirement.

Honestly the GCD heal requirement is one of the better aspects of Veil, as it actually allows you the ability to plan ahead with it's usage, where you can have two shields from Veil apply at 60 seconds apart, while the the other 3 tanks are always 90 seconds apart.

Using Veil correctly, you can time it with healers preparation for raidwide attacks, where healers are applying AoE regens or shields, and from level 84 onwards, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle and Confiteor will proc Veil, also at 90 with Blades combo.

Veil isn't really that clunky, just requires a bit of thought before using it, still think the biggest problem with Veil is the shield and heal from Veil not applying to the PLD, and sure I've had it as a counter argument, "but you're a tank you don't need Veil to apply to yourself" but then why do the other tanks need theirs to apply to themselves.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Divine Veil is the original tank AoE mitigation, so has a couple of more nuanced aspects than the other tanks. The biggest issue is that the PLD doesn't get any benefit from Divine Veil, not the GCD heal requirement.

Honestly the GCD heal requirement is one of the better aspects of Veil, as it actually allows you the ability to plan ahead with it's usage, where you can have two shields from Veil apply at 60 seconds apart, while the the other 3 tanks are always 90 seconds apart.

Using Veil correctly, you can time it with healers preparation for raidwide attacks, where healers are applying AoE regens or shields, and from level 84 onwards, Holy Spirit, Holy Circle and Confiteor will proc Veil, also at 90 with Blades combo.

Veil isn't really that clunky, just requires a bit of thought before using it, still think the biggest problem with Veil is the shield and heal from Veil not applying to the PLD, and sure I've had it as a counter argument, "but you're a tank you don't need Veil to apply to yourself" but then why do the other tanks need theirs to apply to themselves.

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To be fair wings don’t give you the 15 % dmg reduce either and only let you block, that you always can do by random Chance anyway. It feels off in both regard and don’t forget only wings is in a decent number of situations pretty bad as a group mitigation tool in comparison too heart and missionary.

Tbh, tank's don't really need these shields and reductions on themself. If a raid wide hits the DPS for 75% of their HP, a Tank gets like 25% DMG.
Veil can also be activated by the paladin when he heals himself in his magic rotation.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Veil isn't really that clunky, just requires a bit of thought before using it, still think the biggest problem with Veil is the shield and heal from Veil not applying to the PLD, and sure I've had it as a counter argument, "but you're a tank you don't need Veil to apply to yourself" but then why do the other tanks need theirs to apply to themselves.

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Paladin at this point really needs help with it's current capability and rotations, it's an utter mess. Some abilities are notably fine.

Divine Veil makes better sense if you look at it from the perspective of PLD's very image - a selfless knight putting others before themself, but, on the other side of the coin, they are also dependent on their teammates (read: a healer) to back them up, hence the proc requirement from a heal (although the PLD themself can self proc it anyway by simply casting Clemency, there seems to be resistance from players doing this, something something "breaking combos" yadda yadda "overhealing" blahblahblah), and how it only affects their party members not them.

GLA/PLD also has a number of potent self defensive buffs anyway (Sentinel, Hallowed Ground, Holy Sheltron, we also used to have Rampart as our own ability before it became a tank role ability, and Foresight and Protect as crossclass buffs before they were removed from the game).

And although there is a lack of 'easy party wide' defensive buffs with PLD, we do have buffs that protect others at an individual level (Passage of Arms with it's conal shield, Cover to a single person), so we don't exactly lack for defensive options, they're just more situational and require... um, foresight rather than rushing around mid fight and popping some easy defensive ability with no further thought.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Paladin at this point really needs help with it's current capability and rotations, it's an utter mess. Some abilities are notably fine.

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I 100% agree, like core rotation feels mostly fine, but I'm not so good with the maths to even guess, but if SKS stat affected magic phase via trait, or they finally merge SKS and SPS together into one stat, would that reduce or even stop the drift of the rotation out of raid buffs. While I have come to like some of the cursed openers and rotations PLD is capable of on a fight by fight basis, especially cursed in DSR that I've got through so far, it can be quite defeating that you have to put in so much more work than the other three tanks and especially struggle to keep up with the damage output of DRK and GNB, even more so when looking at aDPS.

Cover needs buffing or removing at this point, as it is, the skill has no notable use, simply since the cost is not even remotely worth using when Intervention is so stacked as an alternative. Sure on past fights it had its uses, it's heyday in Stormblood, and paired with Tempered Will as an extra anti knockback for phys ranged or to help keep uptime for co-tank/ melee, or an actual cooldown, or to cheese an otherwise a mechanic that forced a disengage. With it's neutered state, it might as well not be on a hotbar, outside of some niche encounter. *also for anyone that says but you can save a run by covering a healer before they die, the time the animation goes off to apply cover, the healer is already dead.*

Veil I've already mentioned, Passage of Arms, personally I have no issue with honestly, and in organised raids, there is more than plenty of uses to pop it and keep going, especially in p2s and p4s personally I found there is so many places to use it, other fights, may not be as many obvious uses, but doesn't take much effort to make use of it in maybe some more awkward situations.

Right now, not sure what or how they can really adjust or add to the kit apart from QOL, potency buff and possible implementations I mentioned above. I feel there won't be much in the way of a rework of the job, not to say it wouldn't happen, but the amount of work that the devs have put into the job and how they have built on top of the job since ARR and very little has eroded from the job overall, don't think they will do a rework. Not sure how they could reuse assets in the current toolkit in a way that flows like it does now, not to say there isn't but guess I'm biased by how used to the current rotation if a rework does happen.

I think the simplest fix to the paladin rotation would be insert ability..

Blades of .....

60 second recast, 10 second duration

Allows the cast of of Blades of Faith and the ability to obviously continue the rotation.

This will fix the rotation and get you into the 'gore rotation DoT' and start off with your highest DPS skills first to increase your 'burst damage' which is already near nonexist and maintaining all current abilities and similar rotation.

Now the math in the rotation would then have to be calculated to ensure DPS alignment with the other tank classes. You would still cast Fight or Flight at the start and continue with the Atonement cycle after your Blade rotation. Then rotate back into your last goring combo with the end of FoF then into Requiscat. So this new ability would line up and be paired with FoF. 10 second duration or 5 if you want to make the rotation more difficult would allow for the precast of said spell and not force a double weave with FoF.

Now FoF while using this new ability would be useless due to only physical damage increase. So to make this a productive rotation. FoF would increase Blade rotation damage by 25%.

Example rotation:

Blade combo, Atonement, Goring, Requiscat,

(repeat same opener) Blade rotation, Atonement, etc...

I think Veil would need some tweaks. Compared to DRK or GNB, I feel the party def buff is much shorter and when you wait for the AoE cast from the boss, sometimes it’s so fast you only have time for one GCD and not too. So often the buff doesn’t go off and gets wasted.

Love PLD but I can definitely feel I’m behind others. Not even mentioning warrior even though I’m not a fan, their toolkit + burst damage is great. Wish PLD didn’t lag behind because we have so many situational skills and many aren’t even used like Cover.