New Summoner Actions - Affinity and Aversion

I personally enjoy the changes Summoner got with Endwalker. Now it feels like you are actually a summoner. I know people miss their DoTs and Ruin spam, but pre-EW Summoner didn't feel like a summoning job. You threw out Garuda minion on trash mobs, then Ifrit minion on bosses. Occasionally using their special moves.

Now, you're pulling out Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda as needed. Titan is a more valid AoE usage so it's not left behind. And at 90 you get to summon the actual primal versions, not Egi.

Okay, now what do we need to improve on this. MORE SUMMONS!

So I came up with this idea for two more actions to learn on the path to 100.

Summon Affinity and Summon Aversion.
These function while under the effect of Ifrit's Favor, Titan's Favor, and Garuda's Favor.

Affinity pulls out a new summon based on it having an affinity with the embodiment of the Favor, or the element.

Aversion pulls out a new summon based on it having an aversion (opposition) to the embodiment or element of the current Favor.

Examples:
Ifrit is fire.
Affinity could be Ravana. Aversion could be Shiva.

Titan is earth/mountain.
Affinity could be Zurvan. Aversion could Leviathan.

Garuda is wind/storm.
Affinity could be Ramuh. Aversion could be Sophia (equilibrium/calm which is opposite to a violent storm)

Action: Elder Summon
With 3 Affinity, you will summon Hydaelyn to be suffused with her divine light.
With 3 Aversion, you will summon Zodiark to be suffused with his eternal darkness.
With a mix of 3 Affinity/Aversion, you will summon Zantetsuken and temporarily become Odin for a melee attack.

Rough ideas, certainly. But it seems like it'd be really wild to add in more summons with different effects/abilities at the highest levels of summoning that we'll be reaching. So instead of just the same old thing of Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan, we can instead gain access to 6 new summons just beyond 90, and 3 more on top of that at level 100.

Of course, this will probably never happen. But it's something I'd love to see worked out for the 91-100 SMN actions. :3

Gonna change from adjusting Bahamut/Phoenix to a third action, because the way this was setup, it'd negate Bahamut/Phoenix entirely, you'd keep running Hydaelyn/Zodiark/Zantetsuken, where a separate action will let it cooldown for like 120 seconds so it's not used too much.

So the third action could be called something like Elder Summoning, since all three are elder primals.

I can't even fathom someone smacktalking old Summoner for Ruin Spam and then praising new Summoner's design. Oh boy I love both demi phases being 1 button spam fests and 90% of the rest of the rotation being Gemshine spam. It's just as bad as it ever was, except now there's nothing to manage.

As for this idea, you haven't actually explained what any of this is supposed to do. Summoner currently has a whole 1 free GCD in its cycle, so if any of these summons are gcd you've started knocking out the other things. If it's a demi summon that isn't tied to GCD you've now introduced even more nonsense about the shield being unusable while also making it extremely irrating to summon due to the long spawn/retreat animations where carbuncle is dead. Assuming none of that is true you're just throwing multiple summons on screen at the same time (because lmao what else is there to weave in the gem summon gcd) which is just going to look gaudy and needlessly busy.

Also Sophia is dual aspected Wind and Lightning so she could not be further from a Wind Aversion given the Affinity is Lightning. Aversion and Affinity itself doesn't really make sense with what you want Elder Summoning to be. Zodiark isn't 'against' anything, nor is thematically opposite to anything except Hydaelyn. If you want to tie these two together you'd be better off using Astral and Umbral variants of Fire, Earth, and Wind since those two represent the polarity of all elements rather than any kind of preference.

Odin also does not fit in with the big Z and H at all, and feels dramatically out of place. He's not even that special of a primal since it is just a creation of Eureka, and there are plenty of Eurekan primals.

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

Gonna change from adjusting Bahamut/Phoenix to a third action, because the way this was setup, it'd negate Bahamut/Phoenix entirely, you'd keep running Hydaelyn/Zodiark/Zantetsuken, where a separate action will let it cooldown for like 120 seconds so it's not used too much.

So the third action could be called something like Elder Summoning, since all three are elder primals.

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Again, there needs to be more information or these ideas don't really amount to much beyond "isn't it cool???" What is the cooldown of Affinity/Aversion? Do they share one? If not the rotation is going to go beyond gaudy if you're vomiting out 9 primals every minute. Even if they don't share a cooldown the earliest you can pop this button is near the 1 minute mark, completely desynced from your opener and every possible raid buff/pot, since you need all 3 gem summons first. Either the potency is insane and you forgo nearly every gemshine in the first minute just to cycle faster (which would make it ridiculously op later when you can resync to raid buffs with any downtime), or it's just permanently mis-aligned with every buff by default unless you sit on it for a full minute.

First off, what is the point of coming up with technical details and oGCD or GCD status, when that is SE's job to do. Just like the primals I listed, they were just ideas, nothing set in stone. Merely options to broaden what you could bring out as a summoner.

Second, the "old vs new" stuff. I get people were comfortable in their non-Summoner job where all they did was manage DoTs and Ruin and never actually summoned anything. Beyond alternating between your Garuda pet for Trash and Ifrit pet for Bosses. Which stood around and did their own thing until you could actively command them to do an attack.

I much prefer it now. I can summon an Egi, which I hate, or Carbuncle, which are honestly kind of childish. Or at least at 90 I can actually summon a Primal that looks decent and interesting.

Third, the whole "Gemshine" bad thing, is honestly getting to be a joke. And people don't even realize how big a joke it is.

Old Summoner: Egi Assault, Egi Assault II, Enkindle.
Using Ifrit as an example:
Egi Assault -> Crimson Cyclone
Egi Assault II -> Flaming Crush
Enkindle -> Inferno

New Summoner: Gemshine, Precious Brilliance, Summon, Astral Flow
Again, with Ifrit:
Gemshine / Precious Brilliance -> a fire aoe attack (the new Ruin)
Summon -> Inferno
Astral Flow -> Crimson Cyclone (And Crimson Strike may as well be Flaming Crush)

So, how exactly is "Gemshine" so bad now? I'd like to hear an explanation for this, instead of the constant lament that the Ruin is gone.

So, Ruin becomes Gemshine and Brilliance. Exact same spam, but with different animations based on element.
And Enkindle is merged with Summon, so you use it nearly as often as before. Nothing was lost there.
And lastly, Egi Assault II is renamed Astral Flow. Which we did lose the Egi Assault attacks, I'll grant that, but that's not even a big deal.

All SMN really lost was the DoTs, that never fit SMN to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

First off, what is the point of coming up with technical details and oGCD or GCD status, when that is SE's job to do.

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Because they influence playflow quite differently.

There's as much of a difference in 'feel' between them as between a filler and CD-based attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valfreyja

Yeah, I get that. What I'm saying is what is the point in coming up with all these minor details, when SE can handle that sort of thing better.

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When it comes down to potency (within gameplay breakpoints you had already set), sure. But you will want to establish playfeel pretty vividly if you want anyone to give a damn one way or the other about your design. That much you should handle yourself, at least tentatively.

For instance, the last thing a bunch of jaded SMN mains who find SMN CPM too slow because of trimmed oGCDs and things like Ruby Rite randomly having 1.2-GCD recast (not cast, but recast, GCD-incurring) time would want... is to hear that none of that is being addressed (or, worse, is being deepened).

Yeah, I get that. What I'm saying is what is the point in coming up with all these minor details, when SE can handle that sort of thing better. This is more a suggestion of the fact that Summoners need more primals to summon. Not as cosmetic alterations, but newer ones to expand on what can be done in battle.

Edit: There is also the fact that in my experience, if someone makes a suggestion and micromanages every little detail for it, it is extremely rare for it to make it into the game. Because then it's technically them using someone else's intellectual property.

Same reason if someone mods something into a game, it's not likely for an official version to be added in, because of things like that. No matter how much players love it or even if the devs themselves like it. Because if they make something in the game that someone else created, then it's something like stealing.

Don't know the exact details or legalities of it, but I've seen plenty of times for people clamoring about mods in other games and how great they are, and asking why the devs don't, and this was usually the reason given.

Is this not just the nadi system?