Tempering (6.0 spoilers)

I have been wondering for a time, based on what Emet-Selch said in 5.0 about Zodiark tempering him and his fellow convocation members. Wouldn't also that extend to Zodiark's ability in tempering the WoL? If so, then it should have been part of the fight or the plot against Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I have been wondering for a time, based on what Emet-Selch said in 5.0 about Zodiark tempering him and his fellow convocation members. Wouldn't also that extend to Zodiark's ability in tempering the WoL? If so, then it should have been part of the fight or the plot against Zodiark.

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Y'shtola does entertain the possibility if you choose her as your visitor, but it's implied the blessing of light shielded us from any influence he might've still had in spite of his incomplete state.

Remember that the Zodiark we actually fight is also all but mindless, thanks to Elidibus being dead, and being controlled by Fandaniel, whose entire goal is for Zodiark to be destroyed to restart the Final Days. Even if he could have tempered us, he wouldn't, because he wanted us to witness it and suffer through it.

We were also fighting Zodiark for like, ten minutes. If the Ironworks were fine against Bismarck, we were fine against Zodiark.

It's a different story when talking about a primal that actively tempers, like Ifrit or Lakshmi, but that's not Zodiark. It's especially not Zodiark controlled by Fancy Daniel, who above all wanted to die; he wasn't about to take the easy out in stopping his foe.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Y'shtola does entertain the possibility if you choose her as your visitor, but it's implied the blessing of light shielded us from any influence he might've still had in spite of his incomplete state.

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I still don't regret choosing Alisaie, but good to know its something that has been addressed and not left in the dark.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

I still don't regret choosing Alisaie, but good to know its something that has been addressed and not left in the dark.

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If you want to see the other options, they're available in the inn room. Which you probably know, but thought I'd leave here in case.

I forget the specifics, but I wanna say the moon rabbits explained at some point that Zodiark and Hydalyn were “pure” primals and did not actually temper (or at least they don’t actively). I believe there was mention of a slight tug that was akin to tempering due to their sheer power, but no full on mind control like we see with the 2.0 primals.

So, either 5.0 Ascian tempering was retconned in 6.0, or Emet got it wrong, or ???.

I believe it was Lahabrea that actually developed the corrupted form of primal summoning and tempering as we know it.


Again sorry if I can’t place where this was exactly…but I wanna say it was when the rabbits were talking about powering the Ragnarok/teaching beast tribes “pure” summoning.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I forget the specifics, but I wanna say the moon rabbits explained at some point that Zodiark and Hydalyn were “pure” primals and did not actually temper (or at least they don’t actively). I believe there was mention of a slight tug that was akin to tempering due to their sheer power, but no full on mind control like we see with the 2.0 primals.

So, either 5.0 Ascian tempering was retconned in 6.0, or Emet got it wrong, or ???.

I believe it was Lahabrea that actually developed the corrupted form of primal summoning and tempering as we know it.


Again sorry if I can’t place where this was exactly…but I wanna say it was when the rabbits were talking about powering the Ragnarok/teaching beast tribes “pure” summoning.

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The bunnies said that part of ascian summoning was the desire to convert others to their beliefs. Considering how divisive the summoning of Zodiark was, I can fully believe that part of their summoning of him included the desire to convert everyone else to their cause.

Emet-Selch stated in Shadowbringers that the Unsundered are all tempered by Zodiark. They're far less fanatical about it than the tempered of modern primals (Lahabrea's insanity aside), but whether that's because the later primals were made with deliberately flawed rituals, or because having a whole soul gives some degree of protection isn't explored. The latter has some backing evidence with Tiamat, though.

One of the Ascian soul crystals also actually has the person describe being tempered (I wanna say it's Altima but I'd have to check, it's in the same cluster as Elidibus and Lahabrea), so yes, Zodiark did temper its summoners.

Something to remember about Livingway describing the 'little tug' is that Livingway is prone to understatement, even if she's largely correct. That means that we can take the overall intention of the statement as true--that 'pure' primals wouldn't temper to the degree that the sabotaged ones did--while also recognizing that it was probably rather worse than she was describing.