Let me be immediately clear:
I am not personally advocating for any idea listed here.
I do often make excited posts about changes that I'd personally like to see happen for various Jobs, but in this case, that's not my intended purpose.
Instead, it's... honestly, I've spent weeks trying to put together a "constructive" Samurai idea-post, before finally giving up and admitting that I just don't even know where to begin anymore with the strange, flat, mushy, defanged, superfluous, circular-Tenka-Goken, Shinten-overloaded... state... that Samurai has settled into.
Then my thoughts started drifting to the general design trajectory that FFXIV has been on since Shadowbringers, and wondering how much further Samurai could still be edited to make it "fit" that general direction by the time FFXIV reaches something like Patch 7.0.
So, instead, this post is trying to think:"Continuing on the game's current design trajectory, what seems like a plausible state that Samurai could emerge in after a hypothetical Patch 7.0 maintenance?"And then look for answers to questions like:...with the hope that observing these kinds of responses early might give SE a template for how to approach Samurai in the future.
- How would you react to changes like this?
- What makes Samurai feel like "Samurai" for you? Is it just wielding a Katana? A specific aesthetic? A specific playstyle? ...etc.
- How far is too far? How much can Samurai change from its Stormblood (or ShB, or EW) origins before it no longer feels like the Job you want to play?
- Or, conversely, what parts of Samurai's design do you actually not feel very attached to? What parts wouldn't matter to you if they changed radically, or disappeared entirely?
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05-20-2022, 06:36 AMEorzean_usernameA Samurai thought experiment: What might a future Samurai look like at this rate?
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05-20-2022, 06:38 AMEorzean_username
Welcome to the imaginary patch 7.0 Samurai Job Guide.
Removed or modified actions
- Shifu — Removed.
- Fugetsu — Effect has been converted to a trait.
- Fuka — Effect has been converted to a trait.
- Iaijutsu — The effect of this action has been changed completely.
- Higanbana — Removed.
- Tenka Goken — Removed.
- Midare Setusgekka — The effect of this action has been changed completely.
- Kenki Gauge — Removed.
- Hissatsu: Shinten — Removed.
- Hissatsu: Kyuten — Removed.
- Hagakure — Removed.
- Meditate — Removed.
- Tsubame-gaeshi — Action has been converted to a trait.
- Shoha — Action has been converted to a trait.
- Shoha II — Action has been converted to a trait.
Modified EnhancementsFugetsu I
- Now a trait.
- Increases damage dealt by 10%.
- Now a trait.
- Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 10%.
- Now a trait.
- Replaces Fugetsu I.
- Increases damage dealt by 13%.
- Now a trait.
- Replaces Fuka I.
- Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 13%.
- Replaces Fugetsu II.
- Increases damage dealt by 15%.
- Replaces Fuka II.
- Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 15%.
Changes to Combo Weaponskill actionsHakaze
Jinpu
Gekko
Enpi
Fuko
Mangetsu
Oka- The function of these actions has not been changed.
- This action now deals damage in a radius around you.
- Now combos from Jinpu.
- Now the third step of a combo.
- Now combos from Jinpu.
- Potency normalized with Kasha and Gekko.
- Effect unchanged.
- No longer useable outside combat.
- No longer has charges.
New actionsMineuchi
- Single-target Weaponskill (GCD).
- 3 yalm range (Melee).
- Does not combo with anything.
- Does not interrupt combos.
- Does not generate any resources.
- Potency:
- Higher Potency-per-GCD than Enpi.
- Higher Potency-per-GCD than Hakaze.
- Neutral PPGCD with Hakaze → Jinpu.
- Lower PPGCD than a full combo.
- Used for filling in a GCD when you don't want to start a full combo.
- Removes the need to plan or contemplate Fillers in the rotation loop.
Changes to Iaijutsu actionsIaijutsu
- Action renamed to Midare Setsugekka.
- Now always requires 3 Sen to activate.
- Now instant cast.
- Now 20 yalm range.
- Now instantly rushes you to your target.
- Now deals damage to all enemies located in a line between you and your destination.
- Now always deals a Critical Direct Hit.
- This action can no longer be assigned to a hotbar.
- This action has been converted to a Trait.
- Activating Meikyo Shisui grants the effect of Tsubame-gaeshi for 30s:
- Causes your next successful Midare Setsugekka to leave an afterimage of yourself at the location that Midare Setsugekka was initially cast from.
- Also enables the activation of Kaeshi: Setsugekka using the same action key as Midare Setsugekka.
- Instant cast.
- 20 yalm range.
- Instantly rushes you back to the location of your afterimage.
- Deals damage to all enemies located in a line between you and your destination.
- Now always deals a Critical Direct Hit.
- This action can no longer be assigned to a hotbar.
- This action no longer has a cooldown.
- Now always deals a Critical Direct Hit.
- Now deals damage in a radius around you.
- Renamed to Enhanced Tsubame-gaeshi.
- After successfully striking a target with Kaeshi: Setsugekka, action becomes Ogi Namikiri.
- After successfully activating Ogi Namikiri, action becomes Kaeshi: Namikiri.
- After successfully activating Kaeshi: Namikiri, action reverts back to Midare Setsugekka.
- Now always deals a Critical Direct Hit.
- Now deals damage in a radius around you.
Changes to Meditation actionsShoha
- This action can no longer be assigned to a hotbar.
- This action is now a trait.
- Successfully activating Midare Setsugekka adds 1 stack of Meditation to your Meditation Gauge, up to a maximum of 3 stacks.
- Upon reaching 3 stacks of Meditation, your next Midare Setsugekka will automatically consume your Meditation Gauge and deal additional Shoha potency to its target.
- A Midare Setsugekka that triggers Shoha will still generate 1 new stack of Meditation afterwards.
- Now a trait.
- When Shoha is triggered, it also deals lesser potency to all targets nearby you.
New gauge: Iaiki GaugeIaiki Gauge
- The Iaiki Gauge has been added, replacing the Kenki Gauge.
- Iaiki is generated by successfully activating Iaijutsu actions.
- The Iaiki Gauge begins combat at 0, and may hold a maximum of 100 Iaiki.
- The following actions now generate 25 Iaiki when successfully activated:
- Midare Setsugekka
- Kaeshi: Setsugekka
- Ogi Namikiri
- Kaeshi: Namikiri
- Cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- No longer generates Kenki.
- Now instantly generates 50 Iaiki.
- No longer has any other effects.
- Cooldown reduced to 1.0 seconds.
- Still shares a recast timer with Hissatsu: Guren.
- Now deals damage to target and all enemies nearby target in an 8 yalm radius.
- No longer consumes Kenki.
- Now consumes all available Iaiki when activated.
- Potency now increases based on Iaiki consumed, reaching maximum potency at 100 Iaiki consumed.
- If more than 50 Iaiki is consumed, 50% of the Iaiki spent is immediately refunded.
- After successfully activating Hissatsu: Senei, this action changes to Hissatsu: Guren.
- Cooldown reduced to 1.0 seconds.
- Still shares a recast timer with Hissatsu: Senei.
- Potency is now equal to Hissatsu: Senei.
- Now deals damage in a radius around you.
- No longer consumes Kenki.
- Now consumes all available Iaiki when activated.
- Potency now increases based on Iaiki consumed, reaching maximum potency at 100 Iaiki consumed.
- If more than 50 Iaiki is consumed, 50% of Iaiki spent is immediately refunded.
- After successfully activating Hissatsu: Guren, this action changes to Hissatsu: Senei.
Changes to Utility actionsThird Eye
- No longer grants Kenki when struck.
- Cooldown is now 30 seconds.
- Effect duration is now 30 seconds.
- Effect now has 3 stacks when activated.
- 1 stack is removed each time you take damage.
- While at least 1 stack remains, damage taken is reduced by 10%.
- Third Eye no longer has any other effects.
Hissatsu: Yaten- Both actions no longer consume Kenki, or any other resource.
- Both actions now have a 30 second cooldown.
- These actions now have 3 charges.
- Charges are shared between both actions.
- The effect of "Enhanced Enpi" has been removed.
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05-20-2022, 08:32 AMAnhra
Personally, i think most, if not all Jobs, are flawed at a way more fundamental level than this. Your changes about SAM tell me in a way, you want it to be more simple and accessable than it already is, and convert Skills you deem unnecessary into more damage.
I dont think FFXIV Samurai plays like a Samurai at all. I mean sure it looks like one and it also has the sword and Skills named with Japanese names which i struggle pronouncing and remembering even after 2 1/2 Expansions, but from the way it plays, its just a dude flailing his sword arround as often as possible.
If i were to design a Concept for a SAM Job from Scratch, i would at first, put the current one to the torch and start over from scratch. A Samurai is from what i am able to tell, a Warrior that only makes few, but very precise and lethal strikes, using stuff like drawing techniques or different stances, and that's what should be projected into the Jobs Gameplay properly. Here are my thoughts on the matter:
- SAM should have some form of "unsheathe" attack like it is commonly known for Samurais to have. Kaiten used to be sort of that way, but we all know what happened to it, but i think it could have been executed better by not tying Finisher Attacks to a Lolgimmick Bar and Sticker Collection. instead "Kaiten" should become a Buff that makes you sheathe your Weapon, disabling all Attacks you can do, but unlocking other Buffs which will affect the Finisher you do (not another AST Gimmick, just having the "Rotations" tied to Kaiten)
- By default, SAM should have only the Hakaze > Yukikaze Combo, not maybe with the same animations, but as simple Sword Attacks that serve as your default Attacks, but your Bread and Butter, should lie elsewhere. Having 6 Buttons that just do raw damage and only serve to slow down burst windows, is terrible design.
- Unpopular take most likely, but SAM shouldnt have any AoE's and here is why: Samurais are in essence, duellists that perfect 1vs1 Combat. Sure, you always see in medias and in the Stormblood Trailer Samurais cutting down multiple Enemies at once to display Power, but my take is, that Samurai would be the best Job, to have the Identity of having the strongest physical Attacks in the Game, but at the cost of not having any AoE potential, at all. Instead, they must rely on taking down one Enemy after another in order to excell and i think, this can be properly inplimented in alot of ways in FFXIV.
- No filler Abilities like Bloodbath, Second Wind. No projectile Attack that just exists for the heck of it and Buffs that serve to build up some Gauge. Keep it simple and straightforward. Samurai should be in my Book, a aggresive Job that knows when ti fall back to prepare for the next Rush into the fray.
Those are my two cents on Samurai, at least. -
05-20-2022, 08:35 AMcjbeagle
It's difficult to predict their future changes because their most recent changes were completely unforeseeable. The trajectory, while clearly downwards, isn't rational or actually aiming at anything except perhaps to dumb down the job not as a side effect, but as the goal itself.
That said, the only thing that seems specifically at-risk if they don't reconsider their design goals is Third Eye, which I imagine they'll end up homogenizing, which would be yet another terrible change.
For me, it's 100% about the playstyle. What I appreciate about samurai and what defines it for me is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
- Fast-paced due to frequent OGCD use.
- Enough OGCD variety and varied use-cases to be engaging.
- Core combat loop of using basic combos to build up resources that are then spent for powerful burst.
- Primarily a resource-based job as opposed to a cooldown-based or proc-based job.
- Rewards the player with enhanced performance for being mindful of unavoidable AOE.
I don't know how far they can degrade it before I'll quit it entirely, but 6.1 came pretty close - I quit playing it for a month - only reason I came back was because other jobs are even worse given my preferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
- Losing Seigan diminished the facet of OGCD variety and varied use-cases that I enjoy(ed).
- Losing Kaiten destroyed the facet of OGCD variety and varied use-cases that I enjoy(ed).
- Losing Kaiten made the resource-spenders no longer powerful, destroying the core combat loop that I enjoy(ed).
- If they remove kenki and just put Shinten and Kyuten on cooldowns, that'll diminish the resource-based gameplay that I enjoy (unless they have multiple charges, then it wouldn't matter so much).
- If they homogenize Third Eye, that'll remove the reward for being mindful of unavoidable AOE that I enjoy.
Everything in the samurai's kit is worthwhile - even Meditate - so I wouldn't want anything to disappear entirely. Major reworks, though? Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
I wouldn't object to reworks of Meditate, Ikishoten, Tsubame-gaeshi, and perhaps even Senei/Guren, depending on what was done to Ikishoten.
Oh, Shoha and Shoha II - maybe they could do something more interesting with meditation stacks - both of those feel underwhelming to use, although I suspect that's a problem with the VFX/SFX/anims and not the actual abilities per se.