without premade team means we have no choice but to become the victim of wintraders

Frist of all, I think there is not benefit in removing premade team.
Win trading is still a thing right now. I saw win trading almost 1 out of every 3 matchs in diamond rank and beyond. During midnight win trading can happen 50% of the matchs.
The only different now is that you have no choices but to succumb yourself to become a victim.
If you can make a full team with a group of player(they don't even have to be your friend), you just need to know they are playing the game for real. Then you can at least make sure the game is fair for you.
There are many content in the game that can be done with 8 player, and this is an online game and I want to play with friends, or play with people I meet in game so I can make friends.
I already reach crystal rank this season and I will tell you that I am pretty done with pvp at this point. I had to lose so many game duel to win trading it was no fun. Imagine seeing a player in your game heals like 500 hp in total during the entire game in a diamond match, it makes no sense.
If the next season works the same way, crystalline conflict is going right back to as dead as the feast.
Crystalline conflict is fun, but without the ability to play with friends and with all the win trading that is happening, I am sitting out the next season.

Even with pre-mades, you'll still have win-trading in matches involving mostly or entirely randoms. If CC is only playable with fully pre-made teams, then there'll be win-trading between pre-made teams with secret agreements (only difference is you'll probably never be in a match with the win-trading unless it's a fully or partially random team match-up that happens to have win-trading individuals). Then, after all that, you'll get copious crying from people playing in random teams about how they're getting curb-ROFL-stomped by pre-mades and how pre-mades are ruining PvP and need to be removed from the game (in fact, this has already happened before). Round and round the argument will go.

I don't want to be that kind of person that just says "git gud", especially as I'm pretty mediocre in skill, at best, myself, but at some point, in my opinion, that really is the only answer. Instead of trying to force changing the game for every little complaint about not being able to win, people should really just make an effort to get better at the game, not only in terms of skill with their class but also in understanding HOW to go about winning, the various tactical decisions and target/objective prioritizations that provide the highest pay-off toward winning, improving situational awareness, and learning not to chase retreating enemies that are leading you into an obvious trap (this is something I LOVE doing to people because they are so easily filled with bloodlust against BRDs (the class I predominately play in PvP) because BRDs are somewhat underpowered and more easily killed compared to other classes ("gotta kill that BRD!", *drool*, *drool*)). There's also building a selection of in-game macros (not hacks, cheats, or third-party programs, but simple things using the game's built-in macro system) to help with targeting, callouts, and marking targets; experimenting with skill arrangements on hotbars to find faster, more fluid patterns with skill rotations and burst combos.

Unfortunately, one is forced to develop a certain amount of ability to carry one's team, even in the face of cheats and win-trading (cause that sort of thing is in just about every PvP situation, ever, not just here, but in other games, too), in order to improve chances of consistent wins. This is not easy to do, and I’m not going to claim myself to be any sort of great master (I play a BRD, for crying out loud! And, as I said, I’m mediocre, at best).

Now, all that being said, I think the only thing SE can really do to crack-down on all the cheating and win-trading is improving their ability to detect and identify cheating and win-trading and appropriately punish such behavior in order to discourage its prevalence.

Just my opinion.

I don't disagree with the premise of premade teams, but as long as they match it against premade teams. Or if they allow Duo Ques, they are matched against somebody else who is duo qued. The ability to communicate through comms like discord of just 2 people, vs 5 who are limited to quick chat is a HUGE advantage and will turn the tide of a match the majority of the time. Two skilled players on comms will carry a match. Likewise, 5 skilled players that can be on comms will be almost impossible to beat by a group of 5 randoms who can't use anything but quick chat. If they impliment this, I hope they pay attention to this, else playing solo will go right out the window.

I totally really agreed with you, that it is SE responsibility to do sth about this. Well I just think they should at least allow a 5 premade vs 5 premade team mode. Its ok for other ppl to do their own win trade thing, but at least my team wont get effect at all. The thing is that now once we match into the opposite side of a win trader we just lost, and there is not thing we can do about that. You can't really carry a team that has one player that isn't trying tbh.

yeah you are right about that, there is an easy fix. Just keep only match 5 player premade with 5 player premade. Idk tbh I really just want to have some fun with my friend...not sure why that is not a thing in a onlinegame...

My honest opinion? Because SQ knew that 2 good players with 3 others trying could overcome a team of 5 randoms, and they wanted to make sure this mode worked. I would not be shocked to see 5v5 team ranked come in the future. Duo que on the other hand, not sure we will ever see it, cause it can carry too hard.

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Originally Posted by Nytes

My honest opinion? Because SQ knew that 2 good players with 3 others trying could overcome a team of 5 randoms, and they wanted to make sure this mode worked. I would not be shocked to see 5v5 team ranked come in the future. Duo que on the other hand, not sure we will ever see it, cause it can carry too hard.

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Assuming the first two seasons maintain high player counts, it's all but guaranteed we'll see Team Crystalline Conflict (Ranked) added in 6.2 or whenever. Honestly, I'm glad there's some people running custom game tournaments because I do think that there's a good amount of potential here, in spite of all the warts. CC is incredibly fun when all ten players are equivalently skilled and all are playing to win - every bit as fun as raids and all the other "end game" content is.

It's just a shame games like that are rarer than frog's teeth due to how they've setup solo ranked...

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

CC is incredibly fun when all ten players are equivalently skilled and all are playing to win - every bit as fun as raids and all the other "end game" content is.

It's just a shame games like that are rarer than frog's teeth due to how they've setup solo ranked...

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I 100% agree with this statement. I think I saw a game like this every single time I was in for promo to the next rank....it was gut wrenching, and a hell of a lot of fun. I have NOT seen a single game like this since I made crystal. It's a real turnover to keep trying to climb the score. The only thing keeping me going atm is the 200 win mount atm, and I'm very close to it, so won't be much longer before I back out myself probably.

Don't worry about it so much; shortly after patch 6.1 dropped and I dipped my toes into CC for the first week, I decided to join one of the active PvP Discords; just to get an idea of the different viewpoints and strategies folk had- plus any juicier drama i could read.

While in that Discord I read one a post of someone who was at a really high CC Rank (I wish I could remember what rank) , and in the matter of an hour he/she said that they had dropped down to Bronze Rank because of "RNG".

And this wasn't a one-off post, i casually read posts over the next few days that pretty much echoed the same thing: high ranks nose-diving down to Bronze simply due to bad nights/sessions.

The whole win-trading worrying in Crystalline Conflict feels very much a manufactured worry, because i just don't see how it's even possible to win-trade in this content. Even if people do the 1,2,3,GO countdown with friends, that doesn't even work as well as people think it does- people still get picked up and thrown into random groups.

The only possible way to cheat the system is.... well, actually cheat using methods no one talks about openly.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

Don't worry about it so much; shortly after patch 6.1 dropped and I dipped my toes into CC for the first week, I decided to join one of the active PvP Discords; just to get an idea of the different viewpoints and strategies folk had- plus any juicier drama i could read.

While in that Discord I read one a post of someone who was at a really high CC Rank (I wish I could remember what rank) , and in the matter of an hour he/she said that they had dropped down to Bronze Rank because of "RNG".

And this wasn't a one-off post, i casually read posts over the next few days that pretty much echoed the same thing: high ranks nose-diving down to Bronze simply due to bad nights/sessions.

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This is literally impossible. You cannot derank from named ranks (ie. Silver to Bronze), only through risers (ie. Bronze 1 to Bronze 2).

Even a cursory reading of the rules or the forum would have told you this, because people post about it in nearly every thread in one fashion or another.

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The whole win-trading worrying in Crystalline Conflict feels very much a manufactured worry, because i just don't see how it's even possible to win-trade in this content. Even if people do the 1,2,3,GO countdown with friends, that doesn't even work as well as people think it does- people still get picked up and thrown into random groups.

The only possible way to cheat the system is.... well, actually cheat using methods no one talks about openly.

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You do the same-time queue with two players of the same job. It's fairly reliable if you choose the right job at the right time at the right rank, and since you cannot derank through named ranks, there is a 'floor' that makes it difficult to truly be separated from your trading partner and also makes it so if your disposable partner gets into the wrong match, you still don't have to care about their performance. Generally this is being done with two accounts, but I'm sure there are some cases of one person boosting another.

There are multiple threads talking about this, specifically, too.