but and hear me out here every job is a limited job when you think about it

you see by not having access to alot of abilities that the other roles do this clearly makes the current roles limited to only doing one job. i'd say each job is the most limited "jobs" we have rn even more so than BLU.

joking aside it really is painful to see how many jobs basically have hte exact same things just "flavored differently" sometimesor sometimes just adding maybe one or two things to it (which begs the question why doesn't x thing that does the exact same thing also match up) or hell not even trying to differentiate them. for example MNK basically has advanced mudras i'm sorry chakras (thanks to opening light and dark chakras and actually you know DEALING DAMAGE WHILE ACTIVATING EACH chakra (mudra)) DRK and WAR basically being the same conceptually and gamewise.

honestly you could blank out the names icons and animations of every healer and i could not tell them apart aside from maybe a "few" key things (SCH summoning fairy AST has cards WHM lillies and SGE i guess shooty lazers) kinda sad that alot of each others abilities could've been slapped on each other if they just changed the animation or look like WHM lillies to be more like sci fi signs for SGE or different constellations for AST none of the healers really have alot of "this is my jobs specialty" skills to them and the few they do have is usually not good (looking at you AST that still has undraw for some reason >.>)

honestly the DPS are fine we haven't really hit healer levels of they could've just thrown this on x other healer and it'd make sense and i'm thankful for that just like i'm glad GNB and PLD are still just not gun flavored tank and holy flavored tank. although i do gotta ask... GNB blood sorry i mean ninki sorry i mean kenki sorry i mean fairy sorry i mean beast gauge when? (wait sorry i actually give fairy gauge being different cause it's probably the most useless gauge of them)

(if you couldn't tell this was more so aimed at healer jobs but the point still stands and is unfortunately happening even now with them homogenizing jobs and burst windows)

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

you see by not having access to alot of abilities that the other roles do this clearly makes the current roles limited to only doing one job. i'd say each job is the most limited "jobs" we have rn even more so than BLU.

joking aside it really is painful to see how many jobs basically have hte exact same things just "flavored differently" sometimesor sometimes just adding maybe one or two things to it (which begs the question why doesn't x thing that does the exact same thing also match up) or hell not even trying to differentiate them. for example MNK basically has advanced mudras i'm sorry chakras (thanks to opening light and dark chakras and actually you know DEALING DAMAGE WHILE ACTIVATING EACH chakra (mudra)) DRK and WAR basically being the same conceptually and gamewise.

honestly you could blank out the names icons and animations of every healer and i could not tell them apart aside from maybe a "few" key things (SCH summoning fairy AST has cards WHM lillies and SGE i guess shooty lazers) kinda sad that alot of each others abilities could've been slapped on each other if they just changed the animation or look like WHM lillies to be more like sci fi signs for SGE or different constellations for AST none of the healers really have alot of "this is my jobs specialty" skills to them and the few they do have is usually not good (looking at you AST that still has undraw for some reason >.>)

honestly the DPS are fine we haven't really hit healer levels of they could've just thrown this on x other healer and it'd make sense and i'm thankful for that just like i'm glad GNB and PLD are still just not gun flavored tank and holy flavored tank. although i do gotta ask... GNB blood sorry i mean ninki sorry i mean kenki sorry i mean fairy sorry i mean beast gauge when? (wait sorry i actually give fairy gauge being different cause it's probably the most useless gauge of them)

(if you couldn't tell this was more so aimed at healer jobs but the point still stands and is unfortunately happening even now with them homogenizing jobs and burst windows)

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SE really needs to learn from games like Monster Hunter (which they did a colab with) in that each class in Monster Hunter plays so differently it's like playing a different game. FF14 has that sort of with job types but not between jobs. IN Monster Hunter simply going from sword and shield to long sword is like going from dark souls to metal gear rising. It would be doable here and still sync able considering MH also has multiplayer with multiple classes working together and that compliment each other well.

They seem to be stuck on this casual friendly bullshit of making each class a copy of another with a different aesthetic because they're afraid of people having to learn shit and choose a class based on playstyle than aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

SE really needs to learn from games like Monster Hunter (which they did a colab with) in that each class in Monster Hunter plays so differently it's like playing a different game. FF14 has that sort of with job types but not between jobs. IN Monster Hunter simply going from sword and shield to long sword is like going from dark souls to metal gear rising. It would be doable here and still sync able considering MH also has multiplayer with multiple classes working together and that compliment each other well.

They seem to be stuck on this casual friendly bullshit of making each class a copy of another with a different aesthetic because they're afraid of people having to learn shit and choose a class based on playstyle than aesthetic.

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tbf MH is also alot more fast paced and not limited like FFXIV imagine trying to work around MH with every action you doing being at the cost of standing still for 2.5seconds on ranged and not being able to swing again for that long on melee jobs

also aesthetic is important yes but shouldn't be the difference between tank As 120s DR bieng the same as tank Bs 120s Cd and tank Cs 120second CD (you will notice i didn't bring up tank Ds 120s CD cause it actually has a bonus function on it with the deal damage when hit mechanic)

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

tbf MH is also alot more fast paced and not limited like FFXIV imagine trying to work around MH with every action you doing being at the cost of standing still for 2.5seconds on ranged and not being able to swing again for that long on melee jobs

also aesthetic is important yes but shouldn't be the difference between tank As 120s DR bieng the same as tank Bs 120s Cd and tank Cs 120second CD (you will notice i didn't bring up tank Ds 120s CD cause it actually has a bonus function on it with the deal damage when hit mechanic)

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Jobs like heavy gunner are immobile. Same with lancer which reflect black mage in this game. So no, they have just as much mobility and immobility at FF14. They let you choose what you want by gamestyle. Want to go Raiden and slash open a dragon with aerial moves and flashy blade work? Longsword. Want to take hits like you're going up against your alcoholic father, try a lancer or gunlancer as you ain't movin. Want to shoot things from far away with a totally not machine gun while laying up on a hill? bow guns.

What I mean by aesthetic is someone being like "I want to use a Dark Knights long sword and edgy attire but not the job mechanics that come with Dark Knight" which is why jobs have slowly been bled of uniqueness outside of looks and maybe slight rotation differences. I can understand some uniformity at first but when you're lv 90 each job should play differently to the point where when you pick up another it's like playing a different game which is what made MH fun.

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Originally Posted by KurohNeko

SE really needs to learn from games like Monster Hunter (which they did a colab with) in that each class in Monster Hunter plays so differently it's like playing a different game. FF14 has that sort of with job types but not between jobs. IN Monster Hunter simply going from sword and shield to long sword is like going from dark souls to metal gear rising. It would be doable here and still sync able considering MH also has multiplayer with multiple classes working together and that compliment each other well.

They seem to be stuck on this casual friendly bullshit of making each class a copy of another with a different aesthetic because they're afraid of people having to learn shit and choose a class based on playstyle than aesthetic.

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Honestly, they managed to do it with the PvP combat - all jobs really feels and plays different (as in going from war to gnb really feels like you're getting into another playstyle and not just 'another tank'). I hope they can really bring that same feel to PvE though I do understand that's hard to balance enough as is and something similar would probably require a massive job overhaul that'd take them a long time to get right.

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Originally Posted by NotReallyMistral

Honestly, they managed to do it with the PvP combat - all jobs really feels and plays different (as in going from war to gnb really feels like you're getting into another playstyle and not just 'another tank'). I hope they can really bring that same feel to PvE though I do understand that's hard to balance enough as is and something similar would probably require a massive job overhaul that'd take them a long time to get right.

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Thing is they don't need 1:1 balance between jobs. Just balance groups of jobs. What I mean is make jobs that naturally pair well with others and not with another and allow parties to form based upon chemistry. Simply make it so every job has a nice pair with 1 other so they aren't fully excluded and that's called balance. An example, maybe make it so dark knight pairs well with a reaper since they're both edgy void jobs. Make samurai pair well with gunbreaker or dancer with bard. We sort of have this with dancer always pairing with a samurai or reaper as they get the most dps.

Taking this into account they really could turn Blue Mage into the only hybrid class. Have it choose a 'stance' to que with, either healer/tank/dps and have certain abilities types locked based on that.

For example. BLU ques as tank. Select 2 AOE, 3 cooldown single target, 3 mitigation, 2 heal, 2 cc abilities, 1 interrupt, 1 off gcd single target, 1 off gcd aoe. It is like I just described every single tank class right there.

Then do the same with Healer. 1 dps ability to spam. 12 other healing abilities but you only use 2 of them. (I don't know I got too bored of healer to stick with it.)

This simplicity could finally bring Blue Mage out of limited status!

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Taking this into account they really could turn Blue Mage into the only hybrid class. Have it choose a 'stance' to que with, either healer/tank/dps and have certain abilities types locked based on that.

For example. BLU ques as tank. Select 2 AOE, 3 cooldown single target, 3 mitigation, 2 heal, 2 cc abilities, 1 interrupt, 1 off gcd single target, 1 off gcd aoe. It is like I just described every single tank class right there.

Then do the same with Healer. 1 dps ability to spam. 12 other healing abilities but you only use 2 of them. (I don't know I got too bored of healer to stick with it.)

This simplicity could finally bring Blue Mage out of limited status!

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sad part is people would still choose him over current tanks or DPS BLUs "invuln" is hands down the best in the game and he can actually get some nutty DPS out with his comboing thatg actual feels like a combo not just hitting 1-2-3 and getting MP and gauge and a small amount of health *cough* DRK *cough* healer would prolly be the most balanced (at current state) role of BLU if it was introduced like this