A list of things that can be done instead of removing Kaiten

To whom it may concern, there seems to be a concern that Samurai has too many actions, or performs too many actions. Regardless, as a Samurai main, here are a few things that could be done instead of removing Kaiten. Many of which are common community suggestions, some are my own.

Here are some community suggestions I have seen:

-Consolidate Shoha and Shoha 2: This one was strange to get in Endwalker. We needed 2? I think we would prefer that Shoha upgrade to have an AOE component.

-Consolidate Senei and Gurren: It was amusing when back in Shadowbringers and we got 'single target Gurren'. But in the wake of Shoha 2 it's now an uneasy feeling. Instead, up the damage on Gurren to Senei levels and give it more fall off after the first hit. Also, please do not give us single target Namikiri in the next expansion.

-Consolidate Ikitoshen and Namikiri: Namikiri has a 30 second window in which you can use it. Ikitoshen has a 2 minute cooldown. Why have these as separate buttons when there should be no scenario where they can be used together. I can only imagine something like lost action cooldown shenanigans borking this up.

-Consolidate Tsubame Gaeshi and Iaijutsu: Perhaps a little harder to do, but I would suggest adding onto the sen UI some kind of circle gauge that goes around the sens, and when full allows the iaijutsu button the become Tsubame Gaeshi after a successful iaijutsu. At level 84 either a half circle becomes needed to use the Tsubame Gaeshi or the the ui element can circle twice, mirroring the ability to store 2 tsubame cooldowns.

-Make Shoha more flexible: If there is an action clutter from having to do back to back iaijutsu/namikiris and having to wiggle in a Shoha with the Iaijutsus and Kaitens, just let us store more sword meditation points (from 3 to 5) so that we can delay the Shoha to a comfier time.

And here's are some of my personal radical ideas

-Rework Namikiri into an upgraded Tenka-Goken. Using Ikitoshen gives us some 30 second buff that transforms our next Tenka-Goken into Ogi Namikiri with its Kaeshi Namikiri followup. It's an idea since I have heard there is a sentiment amongst some Samurai's that we have too much cast times. Or...

-Consolidate Iaijutsu and Ogi Namikiri. When we have the Ikitoshen buff to do Namikiri, just make it so Iaijutsu can only perform Namikiri without spending sens, or we can only use Namikiri when we have no sens and the Ikitoshen buff. Radical ideas I know.

And if you're really desperate to cut down actions count:

-Consolidate Shinten and Kyuten: These have always been the last action we'll spend our kenki on. The lowest priority. I could see why it might set a bad precedent, cause then we're consolidating Bloodspiller and Quietes, and Bhakra... the 2 Ninja ninki moves. But if you are truly desperate to cut down the number of action moves the Samurai has, I think we're happier consolidating these two over losing Kaiten. Actually I'd be okay with just deleting Shinten or Kyuten over losing Kaiten. Please do not remove Kaiten.

To whom it may concern, please, I implore you, please, do not remove Kaiten. There are so many other ways to fix this problem over removing Kaiten. Please, I now beg of you, don't remove Kaiten.

They're not trying to reduce the number of hotbar buttons. They're trying to reduce the APM. They want to reduce the amount of actions you cram into every 2-min burst window. They'll probably lower kenki generation too, or make Shinten cost more, so Kaiten doesn't just get replaced with more Shinten spam.

Unfortunately, none of your suggestions are relevant to what SQEX is trying to do. But I agree, Shoha 2 should have just been an upgrade, like Expaciation on PLD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leonerdo

They're not trying to reduce the number of hotbar buttons. They're trying to reduce the APM. They want to reduce the amount of actions you cram into every 2-min burst window. They'll probably lower kenki generation too, or make Shinten cost more, so Kaiten doesn't just get replaced with more Shinten spam.

Unfortunately, none of your suggestions are relevant to what SQEX is trying to do. But I agree, Shoha 2 should have just been an upgrade, like Expaciation on PLD.

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This reasoning does not hold water.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oat-on-Samurai

The tl;dr here is that removal of Kaiten will lower the CPM (casts per minute) of SAM by about one. One less button press per minute is functionally nothing, and certainly not worth gutting the job over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quor

This reasoning does not hold water.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oat-on-Samurai

The tl;dr here is that removal of Kaiten will lower the CPM (casts per minute) of SAM by about one. One less button press per minute is functionally nothing, and certainly not worth gutting the job over.

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Thank you, this is pretty important to the Samurai conversation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quor

This reasoning does not hold water.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...oat-on-Samurai

The tl;dr here is that removal of Kaiten will lower the CPM (casts per minute) of SAM by about one. One less button press per minute is functionally nothing, and certainly not worth gutting the job over.

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Unfortunately, we said that with healers and their DoTs, but look where healers ended up From Stormblood to Shadowbringers and now in Endwalker. In reality, the changes were made for "accessibility". Not button bloat nor action bloat, or whatever they have you believe. I wouldn't give it much hope. Then again, developers tend to listen more to DPS than healers (seeing how they would give skill adjustments in one or two patch cycles than wait an entire expansion for more pressing concerns outside of potency changes), so there's a chance they'll revert it.

The idea of SE trying to remove a core button that is pressed many times in the gameplay loop because of its role in the 2 minute loop is ridiculous. It's like when someone is told they need to work 8 hours straight without stopping and get fired for taking a bathroom break for 30 seconds

Here is an idea that doesnt involve consolidation of Guren+Senei, but still frees up 2 buttons

Remove guren and senei from the hotbar

Make Ikishoten grant the buff "enhanced Hissatsuken ready"

The enhanced hissatsuken effect upgrades Shinten into Senei (lv72 trait), and upgrades Kyuten into Guren (lv70 trait)

That way there is still the option of doing either AoE or ST, still have the two skill share CDs