Pronoun used in lvl 87 MSQ 'Thou Must Live, Die, and Know' cutscene

‘No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.’ -Venat

The cutscene in this msq is my fav in 6.0 but the English localization here is disappointing, as man/he/him is used to refer to all human beings. In the Japanese version, the word 人（Hito）is used and this word simply means human and is way more neutral.

I suppose the English localization team chose to use this kind of wording to make the quote here more epic or have a religious feeling, but while watching this cutscene I just felt uncomfortable and inappropriate as I and my WoL are no man and I never use the pronoun he/him to refer to myself or my WoL. It feels even worse that this quote is from Venat, who is such a wise and empathetic woman.

Technically its correct. (as odd as it is)
He/Him/Man in old english is gender neutral. They did not mean "male" but they became synonymous with "male" because why say "he/him/man" if "she/her/woman" only refers to a female? they must be talking about a male, right? And thats why its current use means "male" instead of its original meaning.

Now, I also agree it feels weird, since most ppl are going to see that line as odd, and agree it was a poor choice. especially since the rest of the writing clearly doesnt illustrate this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erin_Nekoyanagi

‘No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk.’ -Venat

The cutscene in this msq is my fav in 6.0 but the English localization here is disappointing, as man/he/him is used to refer to all human beings. In the Japanese version, the word 人（Hito）is used and this word simply means human and is way more neutral.

I suppose the English localization team chose to use this kind of wording to make the quote here more epic or have a religious feeling, but while watching this cutscene I just felt uncomfortable and inappropriate as I and my WoL are no man and I never use the pronoun he/him to refer to myself or my WoL. It feels even worse that this quote is from Venat, who is such a wise and empathetic woman.

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People like you are the problem with this world.

Fun fact - In my native language, Venat would use she/her instead of he/him :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erin_Nekoyanagi

I and my WoL are no man and I never use the pronoun he/him to refer to myself or my WoL.

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And Venat is not applying that pronoun to your individual WoL.

Generic "man" meaning humanity as a whole is not you, even if you are counted within it.

"Man" is short for Human and is not specifically for the male humans.
It is technically the neutral short form of us players (and I guess the ancients?).

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Originally Posted by Canadane

"Man" is short for Human and is not specifically for the male humans.
It is technically the neutral short form of us players (and I guess the ancients?).

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Interestingly since the beginning the current Spoken races were always being addressed as the "sons/daughters of Man", so, I guess we now know why...

But yes, "man" in this case is short for human (as in "mankind") and is gender neutral. Really, I think this thread's original intention is making an unnecessary mountain out of a tiny molehill where there are far more important things to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Technically its correct. (as odd as it is)
He/Him/Man in old english is gender neutral. They did not mean "male" but they became synonymous with "male" because why say "he/him/man" if "she/her/woman" only refers to a female? they must be talking about a male, right? And thats why its current use means "male" instead of its original meaning.

Now, I also agree it feels weird, since most ppl are going to see that line as odd, and agree it was a poor choice. especially since the rest of the writing clearly doesnt illustrate this.

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yea I understand they are trying to make the quote have an old English feeling, as the sentence also mentions things like 'paradise' and 'wings', but it's still kind of meh to me.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And Venat is not applying that pronoun to your individual WoL.

Generic "man" meaning humanity as a whole is not you, even if you are counted within it.

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I don't feel my WoL included with that pronoun and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erin_Nekoyanagi

I don't feel my WoL included with that pronoun and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

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Well you're going to just have to grow up and get over it because Venat was using that term in a neutral way. Or should we stop using the word humanity and mankind as well?