For the most part the community is fine, but there will always be those people who imagine themselves to be elites of the community- and from there, see themselves as ones who should be policing everyone else, and this always ends in overzealous behavior and communal racketeering (where groups of people who know each other dedicate themselves to this practice), including abuse of any controls that they have access to.
The issue here being, we have people in the community (who square could easily find on the system) who are serial votekickers and seek to assert their imagined authority by taking the earliest opportunities to votekick anyone who doesn't fit in with their increasingly intolerant gameplay expectations and attitude. These include them being so paranoid 'a person, any person' might get a 'free' normal raid completion without contributing, because they were afk for 30 seconds tending to something- so without even trying to contact the player via the party chat, they immediately start a votekick due to their paranoid, spiteous, mental health problem.
These people are obviously high-play-hours members of the community (and regular players of hardcore content), but are also regularly from the minority of players who break Square's terms of service by using external programs to monitor other players damage-per-second, and from here we have identified another means by which these players single out, harass and persecute other players through votekicks.
The solution is, for 'the most common, normal and default duty content' to heavily restrict the amount of times you can initiate a votekick (that succeeds) in dungeons, trials and raids, but with a caveat. The new system would give you an 'entitlement' of one succeeding-votekick initiation per fortnight- so the 'entitlement' is only used up if your votekick initiation succeeds and the hindering player is removed. You would still be free to vote in multiple votekicks initiated through other players.
This restriction thus obviously would not apply to Extreme Trials and Savage Raids, which are hardcore content.
Keep in mind that the most players rarely find themselves in a position where they are prompted to vote on a dismissal at all, let alone start a votekick, so this restriction does not negatively impact the vast majority of players. The restriction purely protects those doing standard Normal/Hard Dungeons & Trials, Alliance Raids and Normal Raids using the standard settings through the Duty Finder (Enabling min iLvl on a Dungeon thus takes the duty out from under the umbrella of this proposed restriction). The objective is to protect the vast majority of users, playing the standard default content, from (hopefully) ever being a victim of elitists and others who think it is their role to police others gameplay (again, such players are often ToS breakers through their use of DPS monitoring scripthook programs).
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02-09-2022, 11:39 AMZofianThere needs to be a fortnightly, per-account restriction on initiating votekicks
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02-09-2022, 01:40 PMPadudu
How often are you getting votekicked lol?
But fr, where do you see this happening? On roulettes? How do you know someone is a serial votekicker? Do they just announce something like, "this is my 30th votekick of the day"? Statics? I'm genuinely asking bcus I've never experienced it.
Tbh if you're with someone who's going to votekick you because you messed up a mechanic or you seem afk or whatever, just take the blessing and run away, you probably don't want to play with them anyways. I run a fair amount of duties, I find it fun, but I wouldn't want my votekick restricted because a "paranoid elitist" is trigger happy on the button. I'm pretty sure you can report people who use the votekick maliciously, no? -
02-13-2022, 12:42 AMArchlordPie
If I had to guess, OP got non-level 50 content in a roulette, ate floor because the content wasn't braindead easy, didn't accept the res and went "lul just carry me", then jumped straight to 800% Malding after getting votekicked for it. Or he wants to get away with AFKing through MSQ roulette on "why would I waste my once-every-2-weeks votekick on this guy" grounds.
The system is fine as is. If you have to go AFK often enough that it becomes legitimately disruptive to your teams in group content, they have every right to kick you and you should probably consider playing a different game. -
02-13-2022, 01:25 AMJojoya
Seeing how the OP is on Sophia, I wonder if NA culture and JP culture have reached the breaking point in their Duty Finder and Party Finder. Those who are used to JP team cooperation are going to have even less patience with entitled NA player behavior than NA players do.
But I agree with Archlord Pie. System is fine. We already have a limit on how often a player can initiate a vote kick (think it's once every 4 hours?). If the OP feels like he's getting votekicked too much, perhaps he needs to reassess and mend his own behavior. -
02-13-2022, 01:35 AMSeiyaSoiyathese sort of posts that make up a very intricate scenario often times makes me wonder if this is projection.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchlordPie
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02-13-2022, 02:30 AMdspguy
I've run thousands of dungeons since 2013. I've never been vote-kicked. That's not to say I'm a good player or a bad player. One would think that if someone has been vote kicked due to some bad apples that vote kick people for no reason, then players that been here for nearly 9 years would have at least run into them once before.
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02-13-2022, 03:15 AMForteNightshadeI'd like to point out that the most high profile examples of harassment and bullying in this game's history have come from JP. Of course, we'll just continue to pretend they are all sunshine and rainbows while NA is EVUL!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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02-13-2022, 03:24 AMSeiyaSoiyawait, really? any quick rundowns on this? I'm genuinely interestedQuote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
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02-13-2022, 03:57 AMArchlordPieOh don't get me wrong, I eat floor all the time in roulettes, because I'm spending more time staring at my hotbars going "oh !@#$ what do I press now why did that light up oh God what am I doing on this class I just want to do passable DPS" than I spend paying attention to mechanics, but I also get up when ressed and do my best to get my act together. It's the AFK part that's the real issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya
And the "very intricate scenario" was literally how my second Shinryu Normal group went back in 4.0, when I was trying to finish the Stormblood MSQ and got grouped together with 5 perfectly average players along with two BLMs who had the same last name, died to the first Tidal Wave every pull, and declined every res they got while telling us to just carry them. (We wound up vote abandoning.)
Like, certain players unironically believe it's OK to join a group and not contribute in the slightest toward clearing the instance. These players can and should be votekicked, and I somehow suspect that OP is among them. -
02-15-2022, 03:48 AMJojoyaI'm not saying JP is all rainbows and sunshine. Of course they have their incidents as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
I'm not saying that NA is only evil. We've got a lot of great, helpful players here.
But overall, the expectations and cultures between players in each region are different. JP values success of the team - that's why their clear rates are so much higher than NA clear rates. They usually choose to learn and improve to ensure the success of the team instead of quickly giving up.
Compare that to NA where a large percentage of players value personal reward. People going in expecting to receive rewards even if they aren't contributing (see Castrum/Prae) or aren't trying to improve (see EX/Savage). People giving up and leaving after one or two wipes because they've decided it's a waste of their time instead of working to address the reasons why the wipes are happening. They use PF like a roulette wheel until they get lucky.
Also keep in mind that NA and JP use Party Finder and Duty Finder differently. JP uses PF for learning groups. If you're queueing through Duty Finder, you're expected to know what you're doing and are ready to contribute appropriately for the clear. NA will use PF for both, but pretty much expects that someone queueing through Duty Finder doesn't know what they're doing (or they wouldn't be using Duty Finder).
Now put players from those two different gaming cultures into the same group, which is what is happening on Materia right now as players from both regions are blending into a new data center. What do you think is going to happen?
Either way, I have to wonder why the OP effectively wants vote kick removed from the game. My own experience is that even in NA vote kick is rarely used other than for extended offline/AFK or deliberate non-participation and those occasions aren't that frequent. Most players want to get through the duty as fast as possible so they can get their reward and move into the next bit of content on their list.
What is happening with the OP right now that they suddenly want vote kick removed even though they've playing the game for at least a couple of years? Are they on the losing side in the clash of cultures?