Really enjoying bard.

Bard is one of those jobs that I slowly maxed out with MSQ and Alliance Roulette since ARR, but I never really learned the nuances of its rotation.

I know some here have complained about the latest changes, but I have to say I am really enjoying the gameplay. My hotkey setup is so absolutely perfect. Bard has just the right amount of abilities for me.

So I’m curious, what was the job like before Endwalker that you’re unhappy about?

There are those that miss the fact that dot procs were tied to songs but as the job is now it's never felt better. For whatever reason procs happened not often enough for me to actually have fun with the class, and aoeing in dungeons as Bard was boring since it was hardly worth it to keep dots up on 1 enemy only for it to die and invalidate the effects of your Mage's Ballad.

Still miss Foe Requiem from the olden days and could always use more in the way of music and less in the way of...magic arrows.

Im glad to see it doing better in group settings , its a shame that they never made better use of the 2nd song Armys Peon

Mages and Wanderes gives a nice burst bump , I would have loved it f they changed armys to increase chance of straight/refulgent procs , or maybe increase our bite arrows potency whilst the song lasted instead of the attack speed bonus its been for ages

bard still feel the same for me as back in shb, this class is one of the few who didnt change much compare to others.

overall.... well its bard, still proc heavy, 2 dots, song uptime, good old bard.

could use more potency on the dots and some other attack though

It's way slower than it used to be. Our procs being dot based meant we had a lot of agency in aoe situations, single-dot 5 or 6 mobs and watch your soul voice fill rapidly. We used to have constant rain of death spam absolutely annihilating mob packs, now we pretty much have quick nock spam with the odd ladonsbite and sometimes a proc. People argue that it's the "same" number of procs in the grand scheme of things for single target, but the potential to double proc meant on a good run you'd have a lot to weave. It just went from very hyperreactive and optimizable regarding proc usage planning to very predictable and sleepy after the burst phase, especially with the way they horribly gutted mages ballad. Those of us who played it through shb stuck with it because we thought that playstyle was fun, and therefore most of us think that this new playstyle just... isn't.

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Originally Posted by Awarewolf

Bard is one of those jobs that I slowly maxed out with MSQ and Alliance Roulette since ARR, but I never really learned the nuances of its rotation.

I know some here have complained about the latest changes, but I have to say I am really enjoying the gameplay. My hotkey setup is so absolutely perfect. Bard has just the right amount of abilities for me.

So I’m curious, what was the job like before Endwalker that you’re unhappy about?

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The biggest source of sadness is going to be AoE-related. When Bard had DoT-based procs, you could spam DoTs on enemies while the mobs were gathering, and then once the pull was ready for AoE you got a crazy downpour of procs and soul gauge that was super fast and hectic and fun.

However, many people disliked the setup required - the idea of using single target DoTs in AoE offended them somehow. There were many many asks for a Bane equivalent, for instance. But this setup time was the only thing arguably keeping that AoE kit fair. Even then it was still grossly overpowered, frankly. So it's sad but not surprising to see it gone.

What's more disappointing is that the decision was made so last-minute that SE couldn't construct a replacement kit that felt particularly good - it's a mashup of skill shapes and natures that don't work together very well, making you swap targets like mad if you want to try and make the best use of everything.

This sort of cursed nature is the only thing making it at all interesting, to boot. On its face, the actual AoE skills are just a 1 - 2 where the 2 has to be proc'd, a single AoE oGCD and a really slow meter. The rest of what you're doing is finding things to point Empyreal, Sidewinder and Pitch Perfect at and shuffling targets to suit your cone vs. small circle vs. line aoes.

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As for single target, you're going to get some missing of the potential for double procs, but as much as anything it's irritation over things Bards liked from the media tour that got the axe - 90s flexible Radiant Finale, 30s Blast Arrow duration, 60s Raging Strikes cd, and Army's Paeon still affected song cooldowns for a touch of flexibility (though that's funky and I agree with killing it, but it needs a replacement).

Mage's Ballad getting nerfed is probably the single biggest sticking point. It's now weaker than Army's Paeon, so it's become optimal for players to spend a full 40+ seconds in the much-maligned weakest and most boring song.

Also, while ShB laid it on a bit too thick, many had a fondness for the sense of pressure MB gave to react to procs quickly as it made the song highly engaging. Three charges + half-procs wipes that out entirely. This is probably for the better in an overall player population sense. But those who liked that about Bard, would have preferred something like three charges and full resets, or two charges and half resets just to still have some of that dynamic still around.

I have to echo the love for new Bard. I certainly have issues with it that I really want to see addressed, the biggest one being half procs and overall weakness of Mage's Ballad. Ideally I would like to see that addressed immediately in the next patch, because I can't in anyway think that it was intended by the devs to make it be the song we spent the least amount of time in. A quick change to up it back to full resets handles this completely and also would add some much needed impact to the rotation outside of burst windows. While I don't like the lack of DoT interaction and how it hurt AoE, that can be fixed by having more AoE skills added on in future expansions (please SE give us an AoE equivalent to pitch perfect for the love of god). I do miss the loss of Burst shot being able to be held onto, but honestly outside of some wonky fight disengages, with the change to how Repertoire procs now that doesn't matter too much, as if you are using it properly and firing Apex off at around 1 minute, it will then be up again when you go into your Radiant Finale burst window.

But overall even with all these negatives, this is such a MASSIVE upgrade over how awful ShB Bard was, and honestly the closest we've gotten to SB Bard, which to me was as close this game has ever gotten to a perfect job. Sure Radiant Finale feels like a generic cooldown, but when used in concert with Battle Voice and Wander's Minuet, it FEELS impactful to me (not just for our team, but for ourselves, getting the benefit of our songs finally is another massive boon) The burst window is chaotic and loaded with every tool in your arsenal, and it feels strong. The job lost some of it's RNG which can feel bad, but it also gained in now being able to reliably use your damn skills when you want them (aka going an entire 30 seconds and only getting one fully powered Pitch Perfect off is a thing of the past, and good freaking riddance). As long as you do it right Apex and Blasting are always available in your burst, and thank the twelve, we finally sync up with the rest of the raid with our cooldown timers. Some will bemoan that as homogenization, but when you're one of only 3 out of 17 jobs that did not sync up with raid utility, that's just a quick ticket to being the red headed step child, not special.

So yeah over all I give SE a win on this one. I'm definitely not agreeing with those who think the job has been massively simplified for the casual player base. Shadowbringers Bard did that far worse then this new Endwalker version. The only glaring issue is Mages Ballad, and I very much hope they address that as soon as they can, but its not enough to make me not enjoy the job or not want to play it. I prefer the job much more then Dancer after the change to flourish, and while I don't mind Machinist like many do, it's aesthetic never really worked for me. This is still Bard, high APM, put down my DoTs, buff the party and let lose a barrage of skills in a massive burst window.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

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The biggest issue is that square just can't reconcile that some people won't play some jobs optimally. Instead of accepting that people will do that and complain about jobs being hard, they lower the skill ceiling on them. Sure it might make the more casual players happy, but even then for a job like this it's very rarely going to make someone who hated the job start loving it and want to main it. Meanwhile those who enjoyed it before feel alienated.

I've only small complaints left really, mages ballad should be a full reset again, barrage needs to proc shadows bite, and i would like to see dots be more integrated in the gameplay, Not sure what without just changing procs back (i prefer the new way of getting reportroire) but i enjoy new bard alot other than these things

Dots just don’t have any synergy and feel the same way as SMN feel with their aetherflow. But it’s a lot easier to forget them and bleed DPS.

That’s basically it, as much as I like Bloodletter preservation, I still prefer the double proc method of SB and SHB but that’s a petty niggle and would take either or. A big thing is the job is getting uncomfortably automatic with the lack of interplay with its many skills like EA/SW/AA/BA ect. That’s the only thing it’s missing tbh as well as maybe more meaningful song buffs (wouldn’t hurt to give Minne charges) but that’s just me