So I have a few questions about the deeper ideas behind Endwalker.
The first is about the 7 hells. From what I counted is there were 7 reports for Meteion all from dead worlds. Is this the origin of 7 hells? The names of the different Meteion trace directly back to the New Testament such as Deka Pente.
My second question is and I thought of this doing the side quest in Elpis. One quest with Chairon has you respond to her when she ask "From your point of view how do you see us?" and one of the responses is "To us you seem like gods". I paraphrased here but that is part of it.
Hermes motivation appears to be the idea that man had forgotten they were men and started acting like gods. It does not seem an accident Elpis is one big greek reference on top of another with all the Ascians named after greek gods. Is this correct?
Third and I need to verify this but the final zone looks like one big reference to Dantes Inferno with Purgatory for the Dragons, Sloth for the Ea, Gluttony for the Omicron, Pestilence, Wrath/Murder? Lust for the one civilization that only wanted to live in Bliss? The civilization that literally worshipped a false god that looked like a ram? Thoughts?
Few Endwalker motivation questions....need lore experts
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12-08-2021, 11:05 PMPuremallaceFew Endwalker motivation questions....need lore experts
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12-08-2021, 11:18 PMAlenore
Some responses
1) I doubt it's linked, and the amount must be a coincidence. First, because this knowledge should be all but forgotten by everyone but Venat, and I don't really see what she stands to gain to popularizing this idea. And then, there's others worlds you can visit through the last area / dungeon. Deka pente is literally just greek for 15, and as mentioned by Meteion, she lists them by number.
2) I took this answer as "you literally have godlike power of creation from the point of view of familiars / sundered beings", not that they know what sundered beings are.
You're right that Hermes considers that Ancients make choice for the betterment of the star without thinking of the consequences to the other life forms, which is pretty much consistent with how the three Unsundered Ascians behaved in regard to the rejoinings, etc.
They consider themselves as superiors, and they arguably are since they could create us on a whim with a detailed enough concept. Ie : Hermes managed to create something like Meteion. The issue lies in Hermes (and Venat, since after all she sundered them) thinking that lower lifeforms should still have the chance to live even if not up to their lofty standards.
The point of view is interesting, because we (as in the real world) don't think twice about the thhings we create that we deem inferiors : be it food consumption, creating bacterias, cloning, etc. It's just the same idea on a grander scale
3) Not sure it was linked to Dante's inferno, but the 3 from the dungeons seemed to me like kind of criticizing our society :
- Pollution for the first world, as they pretty much killed themselves by making the environment unsuitable for them, until a plague wiped them out. Rings a bell?
- "Peace" through war and uniformizing people's thoughts, refusing opposite point of views, and blaming it on "breaking unity" ;
- The ram people felt like criticizing trying to make life easier and easier, until the point you just don't do anything and lack any clear goal.
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12-09-2021, 12:39 AMyajnaji
Don't want at all to demean you, but it seems that rather than lore experts, you need philosophers and theologians.
It will delve into an interesting thread no doubt, though. -
12-09-2021, 01:56 AMCiliaI haven't gotten far due to Login (Savage) leaving me with little motivation to plow through the story when I finally get on, but I have spoiled myself due to the YouTube algorithm piquing my interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by yajnaji
Suffice to say, as a self-styled philosopher from what I've read I'm going to have a field day when I get around to finishing it so I can provide proper input. -
12-09-2021, 03:12 AMPuremallaceNo spoilers in this but when I went into each zone I tried to look for where Ishikawa might have gotten her reference material from and she definitely lived in the philosophy section of a library for a few months to pull this one off. There are some super deep concepts that I found going on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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12-09-2021, 08:58 AMNekaru_Infitima
I posted this in another thread but got no answer so I guess it can go here.
But I saw the last area as 5 Stages of Grief? (Just not in order.)
The Dragons: Depression. They sought reason to no longer go on, give up, and die as there was no star that would have them and they couldn't continue on in that place.
The Ea: Acceptance (Futility?) Full out wanted to die because they saw what the future would bring for the universe itself, accepted there was nothing that could be done and wanted you to accept it to.
Omicrons: I want to say Denial, as they were in denial that they could ever find purpose again, or a reason to live, and thus would stagnate until death.
The last two I'm unsure. I think with the gone civilization it was Bargaining, since you're meant to argue with Meteion.
For Anger though, I'm lost unless it was Emet and Hyth's anger in the last area. But that's a stretch. I may have them mixed, but there was definitely the 5 stages there in places. -
12-09-2021, 02:00 PMFloortankThis reads like you went in looking for religious messaging and were predisposed to find it. I did not find a strong theme of religion, Simony, blasphemy, or connection to religious texts to be present in Endwalker, other than the aforementioned mythological namesakes and the apocalypse narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puremallace