(Spoilers) Why are dungeons so under-tuned when...

SE frequently make the excuse that dungeons are easy because they are 'story mode', or that they don't want to put 'pressure on the healer'. And yet... once again we get a Trial - at level 83, and forced by the MSQ - that, while not on the level of (pre-nerf) Shinryu, I'm sure more than a few groups have had difficultly with.

Now don't get me wrong, I do NOT want said trial to be nerfed (though some less disorientating markers wouldn't go astray). I simply want to know why it is OK for 'story mode' Trials to pressure the healers and cause wipes due to 1 or 2 players not knowing the mechanics while dungeons must remain essential wipe-proof?

It´s actually a design-issue SE makes every expansion.

First of all, the new trial is no hard. It´s just because ppl don´t know what´s coming and some casuals need more than 1 try to get used to them. Why? Because the game NEVER forced them to learn and to get an eye for certain mechanics. If ppl stop standing is those long-cast aoe´s, the healers wouldn´t have to do much beside the doom-cast.
So far SE´s bad design choice is, that the fights are not really challenging or complex, but rely on the 8th player. In normal mode it´s not a big deal, but in expert or savage? One guy miss to play a mechanic and it´s a wipe. Players getting punished for taking someone "not so good" with them. The carry possibilities, if the majority knows what to do, are not really a thing. And given to the fact, that the most content never force any input from any player and MSQ even comes up with a "easier please" button or Echo, the most ppl gonna be noobs all their lifes and wipe way too much parties with their incompetence.

sounds like you need a break from the game as others have said in another post. I agree dungeons could be harder but its litterally for story content. And heck the Endwalker dungeons did present some challenge if you didnt know mechanics 1-2 wipes to continue seems fine. The trials were faster then shadowbringers story trials much more overlap and mechanics that some would argue more akin to an extreme in some areas. Overall I think the story stuff was harder in endwalker then past expansions.

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Originally Posted by Easayia

sounds like you need a break from the game as others have said in another post. I agree dungeons could be harder but its litterally for story content. And heck the Endwalker dungeons did present some challenge if you didnt know mechanics 1-2 wipes to continue seems fine. The trials were faster then shadowbringers story trials much more overlap and mechanics that some would argue more akin to an extreme in some areas. Overall I think the story stuff was harder in endwalker then past expansions.

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The real issue is that Squeenix intentionally straight up nerfs already easy Dungeon content even further into being almost completely mindless. A good example for this, is the changes they did to the Aurum Vale Coincounter. Said Boss is a Cyclops which are known (by those who pay actual attention to ingame mechanics) for using long charged, nontelegraphed attacks. Since alot of People kept dying to it over and over again for simply wanting to faceroll the Boss, Squeenix gave that Boss visible Telegraphs just for the sake of convenience.

Even with the Endwanker release, they silently made changes to some of the older Content by simply slowing things down. So far, i noticed that the Anamnesis Anyder Kyklops and the Ultima Boss in Orbonne (only the Dps check) have been slowed down noticably.

Also, spare us the old "just go play another game, lmao" excuse. There is plenty of People here who genuinely care for the game and want it to become better, and just looking away from things, wont change anything. The least you can do, is to stop insulting their efforts

Try the level 89 primal fight when I did it we kept on wiping. Most we could get hp down to was 25% before both healers died and then we wiped. Never was able to finish the fight. I would say most the new dungeons and primal fights is over tuned.

I really wish their fix to "hard" dungeon boss fights was just to allow you to restart just outside the boss room, instead of running back for 1-2 minutes, rather than nerfing the fights themselves. Frankly, wiping to a mechanic you're quickly learning is all good fun. Running back is what annoys people in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Try the level 89 primal fight when I did it we kept on wiping. Most we could get hp down to was 25% before both healers died and then we wiped. Never was able to finish the fight. I would say most the new dungeons and primal fights is over tuned.

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This is a serious "Git Gud" issue.

If you, or your group isn´t able to beat the story-content multiple times, then you´re just not good players. This has nothing to do with "overtuned", when more than enough other players run through the content half-blind.

Maybe instead of doing some DPS just stay there, look around and check what´s happening? The mechanics aren´t hard. My gf and me even killed that primal within the first pull with a completely random group via pf. Ppl just need to L2P and SE should start to bring a decent learning curve instead of dumbdowns and easy button.

They didn't just slow down older bosses. With the stat crunch they stealth nerfed the HP of older dungeon bosses significantly.
Im not sure about ARR dungeons to be fair. But I did notice a HUGE nerf in Heavensward and Stormblood content.

I remember early SHBs. Lakeland dungeon? The mobs that spawn after the 2nd boss. You know... The egg room! There's the big guys, that channel an AoE slap.

When the stuff was new, they were immune to stuns! Has been ninja nerfed during SHBs!

Point is, they've been doing this probably since forever!

They want people to have fun and enjoy the story. I personally think, people would enjoy it more if things were a tad more challenging but... I've seen enough posts on here to doubt mzself saying that ^^

But visually, EW content has been great so far!

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Try the level 89 primal fight when I did it we kept on wiping. Most we could get hp down to was 25% before both healers died and then we wiped. Never was able to finish the fight. I would say most the new dungeons and primal fights is over tuned.

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I have now done the level 89 Trial, and again it was significantly harder than the Dungeon that directly preceded it. I also find it funny that you get 'lives' - and 1 more with each wipe - when doing it with the Trust NPCs... it's almost like SE knows the Trial is significantly harder, but instead of adjusting things to have a reasonable difficulty curve they decided it would be better (or just easier?) to give the player wipe protection.

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Originally Posted by Easayia

sounds like you need a break from the game as others have said in another post. I agree dungeons could be harder but its litterally for story content. And heck the Endwalker dungeons did present some challenge if you didnt know mechanics 1-2 wipes to continue seems fine. The trials were faster then shadowbringers story trials much more overlap and mechanics that some would argue more akin to an extreme in some areas. Overall I think the story stuff was harder in endwalker then past expansions.

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I only just got back to the game... which is probably part of the problem; i.e. if you take more than a minute to look beyond the FFXIV bubble you would realise just how misguided some of SE's choices are when it comes to content (and job) design.

One example, as relevant to this thread, is that making dungeons easy DOES NOT help lower skilled players to get through the MSQ. Quite the opposite, it teaches them that all mechanics are telegraphed with giant glowing boxes / circles (they aren't)... that most mechanics don't matter (the healer will just heal / raise you)... and that even dieing to mechanics doesn't matter (the rest of the party will just finish the fight without you). All of which leaves them woefully unprepared when the difficulty jumps up for Trails (which I will say again, ARE ALSO FORCED BY THE MSQ!)

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

This is a serious "Git Gud" issue.

If you, or your group isn´t able to beat the story-content multiple times, then you´re just not good players. This has nothing to do with "overtuned", when more than enough other players run through the content half-blind.

Maybe instead of doing some DPS just stay there, look around and check what´s happening? The mechanics aren´t hard. My gf and me even killed that primal within the first pull with a completely random group via pf. Ppl just need to L2P and SE should start to bring a decent learning curve instead of dumbdowns and easy button.

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Harsh... While I agree that at a certain point players need to stop expecting everything to be easy mode, it is not the fault of players that SE continues to create this expectation and provides little by way of tools or content that teaches players how to "Git Gud".