So with Endwalker here I've noticed with some changes to potencies that rotations regarding 2 targets have kind of been discouraged? There's little to no cases where I see that changing your single target rotation when faced with 2 targets is a good idea (And in some Jobs it actually makes the gameplay worse).
And to clarify I'm not meaning full on expected 3 target aoe rotations, but more of using some individual skills in place of some others, like four point fury on two targets instead of twin snakes for monk, which is no longer viable if I remember correctly from Shadowbringers?
Monk first to get it out of the way, Rock Breaker is no longer viable to use in place of Snap Punch (260 @ 2 vs 280 respectively), Four Point Fury is worse than BOTH Twin Snakes and True Strike (240 @ 2 vs 250 & 270) and this does not acount for the minor potency increases to the better skills at 84 with the Melee Mastery trait making them even better. It feels like a waste of the stance system when these abilities could just be made into combos since they shouldn't be interwoven as much as before IIRC.
Red Mages are the worst example of 2 Targets done wrong with the issue of the Jolt Impact rotation. With potency changes at 84 Impact still out performs using the new Veraero / Verthunder 3's we acquire giving us a very boring rotation for mana generation for nearly a minute to generate enough mana to spend.I remember when leveling my Red Mage in Shadowbringers before getting Jolt 2 that using Veraero and Verthunder 2 in place of Jolt while using still using Veraero and Verthunder was a very fun and interesting rotation instead of what is now Jolt Impact repeat. Pressing six different spells (using Verfire and Verstone procs as well) for my build phase instead of two essentially.It would be great if numbers were fudged around to get away from the Jolt Impact rotation as it just involves simply no procs or any variation in the rotation. It's just a two button rotation if you don't account for OGCDs and the spending phase. The changes needed are just potency tweaks, it doesn't even need new abilities to fix it.Reaper has a minor QOL issue with it's Death's Design Debuff requiring two individual applications of Shadow of Death instead of just simply using Whorl of Death from a pure potency standing. A strict set of 1 target and 3 target rotations only. And I know that largely Reapers will only be performing their single target rotation when fighting two targets but having minor bits of cleave not be affected by Death's Design is unfortunate on top of the bonus of targets with Death's Design dying granting gauge.
Samurai still looks great with it's 2 target rotation though. There's a lot of variation and decision making there to make it interesting, and even offers faster gameplay with increased meditation gain allowing for higher APM than when fighting a sole target.
2 Target Rotations and their problems.
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12-07-2021, 06:40 AMEdweena2 Target Rotations and their problems.
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12-07-2021, 06:42 AMEdweena
And to stress I'm only a casual player of all the DPS jobs, if anyone has any points on anything I missed or misremembered / misunderstood please do correct me.
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12-07-2021, 06:55 AMKolsykol
You don't AoE with two targets you do your single target rotation minus I guess dots on two targets if you want to be fancy.
It's not really a problem it's intended.
The potency is designed so that you should do it with 3+ targets. -
12-07-2021, 02:51 PMEdweena
The issue is that some jobs do and don't with their potencies, as I listed with Red Mage they resort to a 1-2 rotation for their entire building phase when fighting two targets. Red Mages will only cast Jolt Impact repeat with their off gcd's instead of their Verthunder / Veraero, Verfire / Verstone & Jolt AND OGCD's for a more than twice the regular spells. The quality of the gameplay actually degrades the moment you start fighting two clustered enemies if you intend to play optimally.
Then with Monk before Endwalker IIRC you would use the FPF to maintain the twin snakes buff while maintaining optimal DPS instead of resorting to just a single target rotation.
This would look like a Bootshine / Dragon Kick > Four Point Fury > Demolish / Snap Punch, the key difference is FPF Substitutes the regular Twin Snakes / True Strike portion of the rotation (never mind it looks stylish as hell)
That's changed now to be more simplified, which is a pro and a con, but I view it as a con as I have less decision making going on as a result when considering my targets.
And to just clarify I only consider AOE as 3+= targets. The rotations I'm speaking of are considering two targets, and have issue with some of the inconsistencies regarding those rotations from Shadowbringers to Endwalker.
If I had the potencies from Shadowbringers I might be able to explain it better. -
12-08-2021, 12:30 AMPyurBlueTwo target rotations are, or were, very much a thing and add some depth to DPS rotations. On BLM you replace Despair with Swift Flare, two casts of T3 per rotation, and replace Xenoglossy with Foul, which mixes things up a bit. The reason why this is rarely used is because having just two targets is pretty rare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolsykol
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12-08-2021, 05:27 AMKolsykolI mentioned dots I thought it was pretty clear that I didn't say that quite literally there is no scenario for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PyurBlue
I don't consider casting Thunder or using Demolish on two targets to be AoE.
When I think of AoE I think of your actual AoE rotation.
I may have misread OP.
But my overall point was that I don't think it's really intended for you to necessarily be attacking two targets at the same time.
I think the devs intend you to do single target damage in that case but then you can be fancy if you want and throw some in there when appropriate.
But in terms of design I think it's working as intended.