Hi everyone ! I don't know if there has already a topic about it but I've got some questions about red magic and hope the lore-enthusiasts could bring their opinion and answer elements !
We know that red magic is the ability to use both black magic and white magic at a lesser degree of potency than its parent magics. However I do wonder about the color of magic. If we take Jolt or Scatter spells, it says "deals unaspected damages". I've been wondering if it's mere natural aether, since basically magic is aether manipulation, whether it's black or white (or green or blue haha), but concerning red magic I always wondered does it have a color?
--> Visually speaking it has red sparks when casting.
Bonus question: according to you what is the element of Fleche and Contre Sixte spells? They say "delivers physical attack" but the only element red mage does not use yet is water aspected element.
On the other side, I do think white magic is called like that because it's supposed to be "pure", as it can heal though it can use offensive spells, and black magic because it makes me think of darker things when you say destructive magic.
But concerning red magic I wonder... if it was juste pure aether when it comes to jolt-like spells, or if it does have color like a bijuu-dama with white and black chakra... maybe I'm reading in it too far
What are your thoughts about it?
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11-29-2021, 06:01 AMAstraliaAbout red magic... and more generally all other kind of magics
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11-29-2021, 06:35 AMLayte_AeonUnaspected spells would be just natural aether much like how an Arcanists Ruin spells are, even though they are constructed differently. Magic in and of itself only has as much colour as the effect you're manifesting, for example verstone has a brown-ish glow when cast as opposed to veraero's green, although both have a white glow around their focus. Fleche and Contre-Sixte, look more like umbral aether, passive, without any elemental trait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astralia
As to why the mages are called what they are, beyond final fantasy references: Amdapour, the civilisation that founded white magic, came into contact with what the second lore book calls "transcendent beings from yet another plane", beings that appeared angelic. The mages of Amdapour even made golems in these beings images, going so far as to imbue them with curative powers themselves, so the name White Mage could come from that association with something angelic seeming
For Black Mages: The civilisation that birthed Black Magic, Mhach, also practiced Void Magic, calling voidsent from their world onto Hydaelyn. Since Mhach focused so heavily on destruction, and voidsent are naturally alligned to darkness I can see how Black Mage as a name could come to be, due to their civilisations opposition to Amdapour.
For Red Mages: The order of Red Mages was, and is formally known as the Crimson Duelists, with Red Mage coming from that. -
11-29-2021, 06:45 AMShadotterdan
I am unclear if there is an actual reason for it being called red magic in lore. I'm not sure why it was called that in the first place, the only other time I've seen red placed between black and white was in Dragonlance for mages of a neutral alignment.
Fundamentally white magic and black magic are just aether manipulation, white and black tend to differ on astral versus umbral charge though. For the most part though it is merely a matter of differences in technique. -
11-29-2021, 07:09 AMRecon1o6
The red mages in ff14 were from the crimson duelists, hence the red magic.
Non elemental aether seems like it comes in 3 rough flavours. Unaspected magic (ruin and cure lines of spells for example) equal aspected (red magic) and celestial (space and time magic which don't fit into the other categories due to being both active AND passive simultaniously)
the reason why some spells on the casting implement show light esque or dark esque flavours is because thats what the overall cast is leaning towards. Astral or Umbral
to this end, fleche and contre sixte are most likely unaspected and partially solidified aether in the shape of swords -
11-29-2021, 11:57 AMRongwayRed Magic was a joint invention from the few Amdapori White Mages and Mhachi Black Mages who survived the Flood. The War between Amdapor and Mhach caused the calamity but what made the calamity specifically a flood was that the land had a dangerous overabundance of water aether because the Amdapori White Mages didn't use water magic, and so Red Magic, being born of White and Black Magic, would be unlikely to include water. Fleche and Contre-Sixte are not water elemental.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astralia
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11-29-2021, 12:56 PMRandom0Amdapori White Magic and Mhachi Black Magic rely on drawing ambient 'external' mana from the environment (and from Void sources for the more advanced Mhachi Voidmages) to power their spells. The cumulative effects on the environment during the War of the Magi brought about the Sixth Umbral Calamity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astralia
A number of White and Black Mages were among the survivors who settled in Gyr Abania to escape the flooding. Recognizing that it was their overuse of external mana that brought about the Calamity, the remaining mages worked together to develop extremely efficient evolutions of their magics that only utilized the caster's internal reserves of mana while minimizing the life-threatening effects of depleting their own internal mana through the use of a specialized magicked crystal as a spellcasting focus.
HEADCANON - The crystalized aether produced by the core spells (Jolt, Scatter, Scorch) of this new school of Arcane magic were found to have a distinctively red tint to them, due to the power source being the caster's own life energies - i.e. their blood. In an attempt to stifle unsavory labels such as "Blood Magic" or "Blood Mages", the practitioners of this new art would call it "Red Magic" and themselves "Red Mages". /HEADCANON
Thaumaturgy/Black Magic utilizes three of the elements (Fire, Ice, Lightning) in their combat magics, while Conjury/White Magic uses two elements (Stone, Wind) in combat magic and the last element (Water) as restorative magic for healing.Quote:
Bonus question: according to you what is the element of Fleche and Contre Sixte spells? They say "delivers physical attack" but the only element red mage does not use yet is water aspected element.
If Red Magic utilizes the arts of both schools, we see that we use four elements for combat spells (Verthunder, Veraero, Verstone, Verfire) and one element for restorative magic (Vercure) - so that leaves Ice unused... until you realize the spectral blades of Fleche and Contre Sixte look and sound A LOT like the weapons Shiva materializes. -
11-29-2021, 05:48 PMVyrerus
My thoughts on why Red Mage exclusive spells like Jolt/Impact and such are red, is due to being tied to Red Mages using their own living aether to generate their spells. Of course, due to the Alchemist questline, we know each individual has a unique color for their aether.
What I'd say that means, is that the original practitioners of Red Magic had shades of red as their own aether, and it was passed down this way via the Soul Crystals.
As far as Fleche and Contre Sixte go... In my honest opinion they are just, "hardlight" more or less. We've known and experienced the fact that aether can be made solid. Basically, for those techniques, the RDM envisions literal swords made of their own aether, and they become just that. By the by, mild spoiler, but according to the Alchemist quest line, the WoL's aether is blue.
If I had to hazard a guess as to why they were made blue and not red, it would be that they are rather reminiscent of the Armiger weapons from FFXV, which by Stormblood's release had been out for about a year. It features Noctis using spectral weapons of his ancestors. He has a dash-in, dash-out in the form of, "Warp." The Armiger weapons are all blue energy.
Of course, since its inception in the original Final Fantasy, Red Mage has always been tied to swords. Notably, broad and long swords even. The swords in Fleche / Contre Sixte are definitely more in line with long/broad style swords, rather than rapier. They actually bare a striking resemblance to the enemy, "Sword" from The 7th Saga, an Enix title from 1993. -
12-07-2021, 05:01 AMAstralia
Thanks for your answers, it helped clear a lot of misunderstandings !
Besides I love your headcanons for rdm :D -
12-10-2021, 07:32 AMKacho_Nacho
This is fascinating stuff. Clearly, SE gave a lot of time and thought into the magic of FFXIV.
Even a cursory look reveals a complex system with a depth not seen in most games. I'd love to know if they did some research into real world magic theory because the in game magic system is so consistent.
Of course, being a Witch and occultist, I could be biased. LOL