Currently, the only practical use for Phoenix Down is Deep Dungeon (Palace of the Dead/Heaven-on-high) and adventuring forays like Eureka/Bozja. In regular content, players aren't going to be using Phoenix Downs when they can switch to a rezzing job in the overworld or just respawn in dungeons to prevent weakness. They have a use, but it's pretty niche.
I know rezzing is supposed to be the "thing" for healers/casters, but would it be such a travesty to balance to let everyone have access to Phoenix Downs as an in-combat rez option? It's just tedious nowadays to have to wipe (or sometimes struggle in vain) whenever the rez-capable mage(s) die in light party content like dungeons.
Not without some restrictions, of course:
- Cast time increased to 10s.
- any damage interrupts cast time (includes raidwides but not damage-over-time).
- 5~10 minute cooldown between uses.
It puts pressure on players to carry a stock of Phoenix Downs with them at all times, but this could be alleviated by making them stackable as well as craftable and/or purchasable (either making for a passable gil sink).
This would make it difficult (but not impossible!) to use in-combat and prevents spamming from a single player. It's not going to save every run, especially trials/raids/prog where everyone was falling left and right in the first place. It will definitely help in dungeons where the healer dies to boss mechanics and is also the only rez option. Shouldn't have to punish the entire group when the healer is still learning mechanics and happens to die.
Raise is still the far superior option, but at least non-casters would have an option to try if the rez-capable mages go down.
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10-22-2021, 12:10 AMPyitoechitoWould it be so bad to allow Phoenix Down to be used in combat?
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10-22-2021, 12:30 AMItMeIf the intent is to protect runs where the clerics are still learning the mechanics...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyitoechito
If the intent is to make the learning period safer for clerics...
Instead of a fix that changes everyone, why not just change clerics?
The simplest fix would probably be to change their early/mid expac to gear give some tankier stats.
That way balance is jeopardized in the long run, and the clerics are a little more "oops proof" during the period where they're doing the most learning and adjusting.
(that could also be a good opportunity for them to add a little cleric armor to the game to visually convey that you are going from slightly tankier to slightly softer by having your gear over the course of the expac go from having some kind of protection to the classic robe look)
Letting anyone rez in any content is a suggestion with... rather far reaching repercussions. -
10-22-2021, 01:25 AMPyitoechitoThe real question is: Will it actually have an effect on content that would exploit "everyone can rez" for unintentional benefits?Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I think the answer is probably no, as long as in-combat Phoenix Down has enough caveats (like cast time and cooldown restrictions).
The content that could exploit "everyone can rez" for unintended benefit would (in my opinion) be EX, savage, and ultimate. The thing is, if a group is already down all of their rez-capable casters and relying on Phoenix Down to get up, they're probably dead in the water unless the fight has extended downtime (like Sephirot phase change). The extended downtime does pose a problem, but if the fight is still going on then getting the healers up with Phoenix Down will likely not save the run as they'll still be starved for MP when the group needs healing the most.
Alliance raids won't see much of a difference from the change, as the other alliances are generally nearby to offer rez assistance, so adding Phoenix Down here only helps a bit. Normal raids/trials are already designed with the intent of being easier and more clear-friendly, so an extra rez from non-casters would probably just make it more satisfying to save a run (and not waste time wiping).
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... Then again... BLU would probably suffer most from this change, since Angel Whisper is a hard-earned rez option for them and my suggestion would make that hard-earned spell somewhat obsolete. Maybe I don't want this change, after all.
Haha, whoops... -
10-30-2021, 08:50 AMShadygrove
First, they can be used out of combat. Period. Even in a dungeon. BUT....
Normal dungeon you somehow survived a wipe and can PD some one to a wakened state or let them respawn and run back. Which?
As you said, pretty niche. Let them exist there. You could develop a pocket RDM instead. -
11-05-2021, 01:45 PMTaleraRistain
I would be perfectly fine if they were usable in battle in their current state where you can only carry one. So then those times where the healer bites it, you don't have to wipe. Like the run I just had the other day of Furor where both WHMs and the SMN were new, they all died a decent amount into the fight (I think it was right before they were going to combine) and we tried to carry on but one by one we all went down since the only healing was my DNC heal and Clemency. One of us could have used a Phoenix Down to get a healer up and we may not have needed to start over. But I don't think they should be stackable and maybe have a global cooldown per fight so only one could be used. That would make them a sort of hail mary move but still keep the relevance of rezzing classes.