Changes to Ninja I'd like people's thoughts on

1) First and foremost, and this one will probably be the least controversial change: switch the names of [trick attack] and [armor crush]. It simply makes more sense.

2) Secondly, and keep in mind, this is with the aforementioned name-change in effect: turn [throwing dagger], [trick attack], and [shadowfang] into long-range GCD-combo abilities. Give [throwing dagger] a chance to slow attack speed(10-15% for 5-10s), give [trick attack] a chance to blind(10-15% for 5-10s), and turn [shadowfangs] DOT into a chance to DOT(10-15%).

3) Third change: giving [Mug] a teleport behind opponent ability.

You may wonder, why?

- Firstly, personally, I never use [throwing dagger]. It's just an ability that occupies a slot for me. It lacks utility and combo-potential. I sometimes even forget to use [shadowfang] due to my desire to save the ability for bosses or at least powerful singular mobs.
- Secondly, I don't like that [trick attack](formerly known as [armor crush]) competes with [aeolian edge]. I would rather [trick attack] be a part of its own combo chain.
- Thirdly, I'd like ninjas to possess more utility without being OP.
- I'd like ninjas to have more long-range abilities beyond mudras.
- feels less busy with one less oGCD(shadowfang), one less uncombo-ed GCD ability(throwing daggers), and no more competition for [aeolian edge] from [trick attack]. Instead, all these abilities will be joined into a single combo where all three abilities have a chance to debuff or DOT.
- less repetitive, yet streamlined, outside of [armor crush] window by giving player more utility GCD-attached options and less non-combo abilities
- Lastly, and most importantly, because procs make things more fun.

With these changes in effect, the ninja will have three GCD-combo chains:

- one that does AOE dmg
- one that does close-range single-target dmg
- one with a chance to debuff/DOT at long-range

Numbers such as debuff duration and percentage chances are arbitrary. What do you all think?

Well, Shadowfang is getting deleted, so you won't need to worry about it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Well, Shadowfang is getting deleted, so you won't need to worry about it anymore.

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No, I want to keep shadowfang. I just want to be able to use it more often without it being OP. The devs getting rid of shadowfang is nothing short of a nerf. A massive nerf too.

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Originally Posted by Flynn89

No, I want to keep shadowfang. I just want to be able to use it more often without it being OP. I also want to have a reason to use throwing daggers.

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No, I mean the devs literally just said Shadowfang is being removed.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

No, I mean the devs literally just said Shadowfang is being removed.

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LOL, I know what you said. I'm watching the live letter as I type this. I'm saying I want them to rework it, not remove it. Ninjas just got nerfed.

The problem with ninja isn't that it's "too busy." The problem is that it's too busy only 10% of the time during the trick attack window, while outside of that window, it's actually quite repetitive(spam a single combo, while waiting for oGCD's to cooldown).

1) I don't understand how that makes more sense.

2) No Just no to all of that. And here is why:
Long range combo: We literally don't need a long range combo. If you're away from the boss for long enough to do a 3gcd ranged combo, I hate to say it, but you're not playing melee right. Even in the harder content, you only spend 1, MAYBE 2 gcd away from the boss before you can go back in safely and do your damage. Also, you're not asking for Trick Attack or Shadowfang there. Your asking for completely new abilities you wished were named "Trick Attack" and "Shadow Fang".
Chances to do things: There is a reason why AST cards got gutted in ShB, and that is because nobody likes chances, and it doesn't feel that good. And their odds of getting a "useful" buff back then were 30%. So unless the abilities guarantee a blind or a dot, they won't feel good to use at all, and aren't contributing as much as they should be. Also, Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s. It really does not need the added blindness.

3)Completely pointless because you're already behind the boss and in melee range 99% of the time. That 1% is for when you're Armor Crushing. Actually, it would cause more harm since the teleporting would just become another animation lock for us to deal with.

Now onto addressing your "why you want those changes"
-"Firstly, personally, I never use [throwing dagger]" Throwing Daggers is for when you have to step away from the boss for a bit and you don't have a Raiton to spare. It keeps your GCD rolling, and gives you 5 ninki. Better to use it than do no damage at all. "I sometimes even forget to use [shadowfang]" Same here when I was still learning NIN after the 5.1 changes. So I just press it right after pressing Trick Attack, since they have the same cooldown.
-I don't understand how Trick Attack competes with Aoelian Edge, so I'm just going to assume you meant Armor Crush for this one. Fun fact: It used to be in a different 3-step combo back in Stormblood. It went Spinning Edge -> Shadow Fang -> Armor Crush. Or something like that. And Shadow Fang used to be a longer DoT you had to maintain. But then ShB removed that combo and bastardized Shadow Fang before killing it for good. :)
- I, too, wish NIN had more utility, but the current state of FFXIV is too simple to have any support other than "doing more damage" and "taking less damage". It used to be more complex several years ago (when Heavensward was the new expansion), but now Yoshi-P just stated that they have no intention of going back to that level of complexity. Which means a big old RIP to utility for now. (I want my Jugulate and DoT management back :'()
- Nin do get more long ranged abilities in Hellfrog Medium and Ten-Chi-Jin past lvl 60. And one of our new trait past lvl 70 change Kassatsu into an ability to change Hyoton (ice ninjutsu) and Katon (fire ball ninjutsu) into new, more potent ninjutsus.
- Skipping the next 2 points since I personally like the repetitiveness and business of the job. Except I do want a DoT to manage outside Trick window.
- Procs for an effect to happen aren't fun. Procs that unlock a new stronger abilities are fun, though. Utilities are better when they aren't locked or only a % chance of getting.

Also, I can't help but notice that you might like playing Bard or Dancer, since they offer everything you want that you posted.

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Originally Posted by Realism_Snide

1) I don't understand how that makes more sense.

2) No Just no to all of that. And here is why:
Long range combo: We literally don't need a long range combo. If you're away from the boss for long enough to do a 3gcd ranged combo, I hate to say it, but you're not playing melee right. Even in the harder content, you only spend 1, MAYBE 2 gcd away from the boss before you can go back in safely and do your damage. Also, you're not asking for Trick Attack or Shadowfang there. Your asking for completely new abilities you wished were named "Trick Attack" and "Shadow Fang".
Chances to do things: There is a reason why AST cards got gutted in ShB, and that is because nobody likes chances, and it doesn't feel that good. And their odds of getting a "useful" buff back then were 30%. So unless the abilities guarantee a blind or a dot, they won't feel good to use at all, and aren't contributing as much as they should be. Also, Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s. It really does not need the added blindness.

3)Completely pointless because you're already behind the boss and in melee range 99% of the time. That 1% is for when you're Armor Crushing. Actually, it would cause more harm since the teleporting would just become another animation lock for us to deal with.

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1) I'm gonna quote you in point #2 to explain the name change: "Trick Attack already gives essentially a defense down to your target for 15s."

In other words . . . it crushes armor. Why not call it "Armor Crush"?

2) The long-range part was optional, but what you're essentially admitting is that throwing daggers is useless. Personally, I like to keep my distance during enemy AOE spams. Secondly, I like chances. They feel better to me than an oGCD with a 60s CD. Thirdly, the changes to trick attack were POST-name change. So no, I wasn't adding blindness to trick attack in addition to the damage debuff. They remain on two different abilities. I was adding blindness onto armor crush(pre-name change).

Keep in mind, Yoshi-P just announced that they got rid of shadowfang altogether.

3) Well I see no real reason to use mug then. The animation would have been as quick as shukuchi. And armor crush(without the name change) competes with aeolian slash.

So now shadowfang is gone, throwing daggers are useless, mug is useless, and armor crush renders aeolian slash useless. Ninja's non-mudra actions remain boring, repetitive and lacking in utility. Would you rather fill your hotbar with useless abilities, or abilities with proc-potential that combo?

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Originally Posted by Realism_Snide

Also, I can't help but notice that you might like playing Bard or Dancer, since they offer everything you want that you posted.

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OMG, lol no. Not into those classes. Don't mistake my complaints for a dislike of ninja. I love ninja. It's fun, but it could be more fun and streamlined.

1) No. I've been calling it trick attack since ninja released in 2.4 and I wouldn't start calling it armor crush if they changed it.
2) I see no purpose in having a long range combo when we already have a lot of ranged options and a gap closer that's easy to reset the cooldown on.
3) Why does Mug need a teleport ability when we already have Shukuchi?