Simply put: when I go into DR, I am prepared. I have a deep essence of the skirmisher ready; I always have my lost offensive abilities so I can drop the occasional 100k+ swing on the boss. I had a really hard time learning the instance the first 2-3 goes, but I always had my kit squared away.
I don't blame people for dying during DR - it's a very, very unforgiving raid when it comes to mistakes, and not recognizing patterns. But I am so, SO tired of seeing 75 or 80 or even 90-minute clears of the place because three quarters of the raid couldn't be chuffed to either farm essences, or spend a few hundred thousand gil on the market board to buy them.
And, honestly, seeing as the situation is not improving, and understanding that human nature (either a combination of inexperience or laziness) is not going to change, I'd like SE to never burden us with the 'borrowed power' of essences again. Don't balance PUGed content around relying on people to be responsible - don't do it. It's one thing to ask a coordinated group of folks in a FC-run dungeon to be accountable - if they aren't, the people in charge will sort things out to their liking. But to create a raid where you're asking a bunch of strangers to be answerable to others? Well, it doesn't work. And, in my experience - barring the occasional (glorious) 30-minute clear of DR - it doesn't work most of the time.
I'm not chain-running DR anymore; I have my first weapon, and I'm just doing a clear a day for emotions and artifacts. But my GOD is it a chore. And it shouldn't be, because when everything is working right, that place is damned fun.
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08-19-2021, 12:20 AMTeraRamisI hope we never see a system of essences or lost abilities again
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08-19-2021, 12:42 AMShougun
Commented on it before, and this wont make it perfect but I believe strongly improve the situation, is that there are, especially as you go more into the casual audience (where I think these problems more often come from with this system) and away from those who might consider themselves "raiders", a sense of loss aversion that makes using consumables, gathering consumables, etc, not really enjoyable.
In fact, not just "not enjoyable" but actually - unpleasant experience.
Like in sRPG I generally just use magic until the price of consumables is so trivial that when I sneeze at the NPC store all their stock is purchased. I just don't like losing something of even semi-...only sort of.. value. In Planescape Numenera they went on and on about these awesome powerful one off artifacts you could use as you explored the world. I just collected those babies lol. I played FFVIII shortly, saw the magic system and noped out- I hated it (the magic system, I've watched the videos and read the synopsis the rest of the game seems interesting, but that magic system can git lol). FFXV's magic system which was similar was also annoying, but wealth was so easy to come by that I would 'occasionally' make some cures or big boom elemental spells and use them when the fight was generally designed with them in mind (but for the most part just used the non-magic side of everything in combat, I didn't like the gameplay loop of the magic system itself). When it has no impact on others, and I will still win, it's likely I would rather play 5-10 minutes longer in a fight than just use a consumable to get it done faster (with exceptions, it is funny to drop a phoenix down on a zombie).
Which I would make distinction from the DND, Estus, Witcher type concept where you go and make this consumable, say like a new Swallow potion, and when you rest you get that stack back- it's got a easy restock system that generally goes inline with other systems too (there are other reasons to rest).
Now I will never intentionally lose (if a mechanic requires it a mechanic requires it, not going to die because I didn't want to remove blind, I'm going to remove blind one way or another), and there are breaking points (like so much gil it's irrelevant values, impacting my team in a significant way, or like irrelevant gil just irrelevant farm like kill one monster and 20 items drop and it lasts you multiple days so "okay sure.. I guess"), but I feel a lot of people out there, who are not in the whole "using food and potions in raids is fun" crowd are probably in the loss aversion group. Have to gather stuff to get a thing that is consumable that I can't keep so I can maybe win the content (that last bit playing an importance to the whole feel too, not only is it all of this consumable step but it all can easily be for naught).
Which is why I counter proposed for the next area perhaps "use X times to learn" or one slot that doesn't consume, or you might even consider something akin to Estus flasks / DND magic system (restock at set game mechanics). I think consume X to learn might be an interesting/good choice because it would encourage people to use them a lot (good for economy), and add an extra layer of completionism to the content ("learn all the spells", though the other systems can provide this too- like if you had a Witcher potion vibe and had to make them the first time, that would do as well, with some impact for economy too). With a potential negative being that some of the more weird spells may be annoying to see someone use simply because they wanted to use it, like if you added self destruct spell and someone was like "yeah sorry guys I'm using this on cooldown because I only need to use it 15 more times" lol. In such a situation some thoughts in spell design may help- or then think about the Witcher potions, DND, etc, type systems.
Maybe next time there is special gear that comes with abilities and so you do that, maybe in fact it's super FFVII materia system with very similar mechanics (equip, use to learn, can combo, etc- materia that works into other materia could be neat).
I do think the extra layers of systems, like this one, is kind of cool though- it adds variation to the normal gameplay people are experiencing. I think it a little sad if they removed this extra layer of weird, as I think that helps break up some of the monotony of everything (10k hours playing nearly the same way, new mechanic breaks that up seems like not a terrible idea if you can get enough buy in from players). -
08-19-2021, 12:45 AMReynTime
Making them CONSUMABLE rather than UNLOCKABLE was what completely ruined the system for me.
Customizable actions traits? YES PLEASE.
Paper Mario Sticker Star tier garbage? Ew no thanks for ruining it. -
08-19-2021, 12:47 AMValyrianBlood
I returned after 2 years and I'm so lost. What are essences in this contex5 and why do u need some for a raid?? Which one ?? I don't want to be one of the ppl OP is talking about
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08-19-2021, 12:53 AMArillynThese are used in the Bozja areas and raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by ValyrianBlood
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08-19-2021, 12:55 AMShougunBasically spells unique to that content which have a wide variety of effects (buffs etc), they are consumable and need to be farmed. They are super powerful and so they help out a lot, but quite a few will not use them at all which causes the whole experience to go a lot slower than it might have otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by ValyrianBlood
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08-19-2021, 12:59 AMZedxKayn
I don't mind it, but what absolutely kills it for me is how unreadable the UI for the cache is.
Easily worse than the BLU spells log, what a feat. -
08-19-2021, 01:00 AMReinhardt_Azureheim
Im sorry for being the a**hole for pointing it out, but regular 60-90min DR normal is not an issue of essences but rather an issue of the general playerbase in that content on your datacenter having doodoo playing skills and / or treating it with similar attention to Praetorium.
No essences or actions fix people dying to common mechanics over and over again. -
08-19-2021, 01:03 AMArillynThat's my biggest issue with it. The cache is not great. I agree with Reyn too, I'd rather they would have just been unlockable and not consumables. I farm or purchase what I need, but would definitely rather have had unlockable items/actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
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08-19-2021, 01:17 AMIDontPetLalas
Op must be really unlucky, most of the DF runs I've had have been around 35 minutes , with the odd long run around 45. I've had faster runs at around 25 minutes too, but that was rare, and at the beginning. If people with high valor also use LA, then it can also be quick.
My only comment about people dying is - I also agree with OP- I don't blame people for dying either - but - please accept your raise - and - please try to raise if you're a RDM. I don't understand those RDM that never raise while in DR, especially if the party has only one healer.