Origin of the Primals

When I say “origin” I don’t mean what happens when crystals are gathered, and big duty bosses show up based on their summoners idea of what that being is. I mean the origin of the Primals in truth.

Look at Ifrit and Garuda. Where these perhaps ancient chieftains of their tribes, whose legend evolved into deific worship after the truth was lost to time? Was Ifrit originally the name of a great Amal’jaa chieftain who made heavy use of fire in his campaigns? Was Garuda one of the early chieftains who unified the Ixal
after they fell from Azya La? Could many of them simply be another take on the truth behind Good King Moggle Mog the 13th, may the aether carry his legend forever?

I could see Titan’s belief growing out of the early Kobold’s fear of earthquakes. But what do all of you think?

Ifrit is hinted to have been created way back in Ancient times by Lahabrea, way back before the sundering the player characters past self "borrowed" Ifrita to deal with a volcano. Short story here.

Garuda was the Allagan commander in charge of the Ixal troops they created, if I recall correctly.

Titan doesn't have any proper or even hinted backstory, again, as far as I can recall anyway.

It’s difficult to decipher their exact origins other than that they are beings of pure Aether that dwells outside our reality & craves into our plane & maintain their existence for long by prolonging their “tethered” followers to maintain supply of crystals & strengthening their respectful primal worshipping & kidnapping others to be tethered.

Not sure regarding Shiva’s case since it seems rather unclear.

While each Primal’s morality & culture varies; be it benelovent or malicious; nonetheless they reinforced their followers to maintain their existence without much regard.

I believe their origins are tied between Hydaelin & Zodiark’s cosmic clash within the Aether realm.

Its very complex & far too much to be able to comprehend it.

The practice of summoning Primals is hinted to be a variant of the Creation magic practiced by the Ancients. Summoning in particular was Creation magic that required more energy than an individual Ancient could safely provide - one example of this is at the end of the Akadaemia Anyder dungeon, where an Ancient sacrifices himself to summon Quetzacoatl, presumably to act as a weapon against the multitudes of monsters being generated by the Sound's influence. The grandest summons, Zodiark and Hydaelyn were summoned by way of many sacrifices. I'm not sure if Lahabrea's Ifrita actually qualifies as a Summon, or whether it was just a noteworthy example of Creation magic, given that no outside energy source was required (that we know about). Same for Phoenix.

Anyway, after the Sundering, the sundered mortals were too weak to use Creation Magic, but the Ascians found a way to enable them to perform Summonings by drawing upon outside energy sources (crystals, usually, but sometimes live sacrifices as well). Since it's Creation magic, the type of creature summoned could be pretty much anything the summoners could imagine, but they typically wound up being deities worshiped by the various tribes doing the summoning.

Ifrit - We were teased with the concept of Ifrita created by Lahabrea pre-Sundering but we don't know how, or even if it's related to Amalj'aa mythology.

Garuda - The leader of the Iksalions back in the 4th astral era. Probably became the goddess of legend as centuries passed and stories changed.

Moggle Mog - Likely another actual historical figure who evolved into myth and legend over time.

Shiva - Hraesvelgr's lover, become patron saint of Ishgardian heretics. There was quite of lot of plot about it.

Bismarck - Almost certainly based on the fey of the same name and design. Whether the original still exists on the Source or not is an unknown.

Thordan - Again, this was explained pretty clearly in the MSQ.

Bahamut/Phoenix - Bahamut is explained in the MSQ and Phoenix is likely just based on the firebird rebirth legend.

Everything else - Unknown. We can assume based on how myths and legends evolve in the real world but there's no way to know anything for sure until the game specifies.

Bonus: Enkidu - Inspired by... Enkidu.

All of those primals are based off the various tribes creation myths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Moggle Mog - Likely another actual historical figure who evolved into myth and legend over time.

---

He was, he was the founding chieftain of Moghome in the Churning Mists - the references in his story to "using a golden rope so that moogles could escape to the surface" is a cultural meme of the transporter in Mourn that allows travel between Sohm Al and the surface in Dravania. A moogle quest in Moghome during HW reveals this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Bismarck - Almost certainly based on the fey of the same name and design. Whether the original still exists on the Source or not is an unknown.

---

Bismarck is an odd case as there are several legends involving him on the Source - as I recall it was a giant whale spoken of in pirate legends in Limsa Lominsa (and thus also gave rise to the name of the resturant run by the CUL Guild in Limsa as "The Bismarck"), but the version most known is the vanu vanu's stories of "the White" in the Sea of Clouds, a giant whale that was born albino and thus the other whales mocked him for his white skin, which the gods took pity on and gave him the power of flight, allowing him to float high in the Sea of Clouds, which is the version the Primal version is a bastardization of, becoming a mindless monster that simply flies around and devours islands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

Bahamut/Phoenix - Bahamut is explained in the MSQ and Phoenix is likely just based on the firebird rebirth legend.

---

Phoenix appears to have a prototype like Ifrit back in Amaurot - one of the Tales From the Shadows stories on the Lodestone mentions about an accidental creation by someone in the Akademia Aynder 12000 years ago who created an "immortal firebird" that somehow became imbued with a soul that was self destructive and kept trying to kill itself, only to regenerate, locking itself into a agonizing never-ending cycle of death and rebirth, (Emet, as Hades, was brought in to finally return the soul to the Lifestream and thus destroy the creature). Phoenix's name was never mentioned, but by all descriptions it was Phoenix. Which raises the question, how did old man Louisoix come up with the same concept? I think we will never know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Phoenix's name was never mentioned, but by all descriptions it was Phoenix. Which raises the question, how did old man Louisoix come up with the same concept? I think we will never know.

---

This might be explainable by the hypothesis that the legend of a fiery bird that has power over rebirth is something that appears and spreads through many cultures and beliefs, hence Louisoix thinking about rebirth in the context of Phoenix, and also Suzaku being mistaken for a phoenix-like deity over in the Far East.

If we stretch the speculation a bit, there might be the possibility that all of it can be traced to that short story Amaurotine accidental creation and the racial memories thereof, but I also think it doesn't really need that common link. Sometimes similar concepts in myth can develop in parallel, and then resemble each other even more due to people from different cultures meeting each other and going "oh yeah, that sounds just like this thing we have", then going back and spreading that version. This could even be on purpose, for evangelizing, which happened all the time in RL all over the world.

I think some are from the beastmen's own mythologies. Though it is true that the Ifrita concept from the Amaurotians is the true origin of Ifrit, for the Amalj'aa mythology Ifrit is based on the origin of the world as the first and only entity that existed at the beginning.

As for the Phoenix, I don't know what to say, because there is also Suzaku like Yian said, and the Firebird mount.

What I'm interested to know is Odin/Zantetsuken's origin. It was supposed to be creation of Eureka, but (5.5 SPOILERS) the Telophoroi summoned Lunar Odin, so it would be actually something more beyond Eureka's creation, and with current worshippers somewhere.

Bahamut - A vengeful revenant of the fallen great wyrm Bahamut.

Ifrit - Personification of desert heat and fire itself. May have origins with Lahabrea.

Titan - A god of mineral wealth to the kobolds, hence all the digging and smelting and alchemy.

Garuda - A leader of the Iksalion and/or perhaps an Allagan official.

Leviathan - A sea monster regarded with fear by sailors and sahagin. May or may not be related to the myths of Thalaos and Perykos.

Ramuh - Thought to be the sylphs interpretation of Rhalgr.

Shiva - Based on Hresvelgr's soulmate, though this version has considerable influence of Halone.

Phoenix - An ancient symbol of rebirth, likely from before the Great Sundering.

Ravana - Some entity the Gnath Overmind conjured as an an anti-dragon weapon.

Bismarck - Based on a legendary whale, known to both Vanu Vanu and Roegadyn. Presumably was once a fey.

King Thordan - The old Ishgardian king as interpreted by the church's scripture.

Sephirot - A personification of the world tree, at least, according to the original inhabitants of Meracydia.

Sophia - A goddess of balance by the spoken peoples of ancient Meracydia.

Zurvan - A god of victory by the Reptoids of Meracydia.

Shinryu - The boundless rage and bottomless despair of Ilberd, appearing as a very crude simulacrum of Midgardsormr.

Sri Lakshmi - Patron goddess of Ananta, though the version we fight is the Qalyana's version for escapism.

Susano - A god of revels in the Far East that....just feels like doing things sometimes.

Tsukiyomi - A Far Eastern lunar kami, summoned as the form of Yotuyu's vengeance