So... TL;DR tags apply. And I'm just going to post that I'm not here to bash the story at all. So if you're looking for negative comments, none will be found here.
And there's SPOILERS! Not just for XIV but some for NieR Automata.
If you want my final thoughts, kindly refer to my Overall summary.
First off, I want to say like most people, when they announced YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse from FanFest a few years back I collectively lost my mind.
"We're getting NieR Gear!"
Disclaimer: I am a Yoko Taro fan. I've enjoyed the series since the first Drakengard game. So seeing a crossover of this magnitude was pretty amazing and overwhelming in a good way.
From the beginning...
5.1 - the day The Copied Factory dropped. We're introduced to 2P who, a lot of people argued that it was the 2P from Soul Calibur (it wasn't). What we knew was that, like YoRHa from Automata, the machine lifeforms were the enemy. My first thoughts from entering the Copied Factory was "Huh... this place is falling apart. How long have the machines been on Norvrandt?
Alien Manifestation begins to play.
This rush of adrenaline came over me of an "Oh shit! Here we go!" moment of goosebumps taking me back to when I played Automata. I was experiencing sensory overload and still asking why or how this structure is here.
Well into the dungeon we get to the tank and the flight unit fight and all I could think of is "Oh man! Imagine if we can get a flight unit as a mount!" while trying to dodge a giant AOE. Getting to Engels and taking him down was awesome. Funnier more so when people tried to jump to the platform only to clip thru the railing prior to Engel's coming to a complete stop against the platform.
I laughed. A lot. Because it also happened to me.
Once we got to the final boss, 9S, I thought "Wait a second, what is going on and why are we fighting him?"
After the fight, the cutscenes and needing to find this "key" that 2P mentioned, it had me asking more questions such as "What version of 9S is this?"
Post story we are able to explore The Copied Factory and pick up reports of note which give us some kind of backstory(?) and more vagueness. When picking these up I wondered if these are pieces to a bigger puzzle down the road. (Spoilers - they weren't. More vagueness)
For several months a lot of theory-crafting happened between a lot of NieR and XIV enthusiasts. 5.3 rolls in and a new quest pops up.
"Everything you know is wrong"
And boy, it wasn't kidding. The crashing of the Bunker on Duergar mountain, the attack on the dwarven village, 2P's betrayal and 2B making an entrance, we're suddenly greeted with another dungeon - The Puppets' Bunker. We're greeted with new bosses, white YoRHa combat units, enhanced Flight Units, the ruins of the bunker and an odd new entrance from the Command Center which leads to the Alien spaceship.
"Huh.. okay.."
Like many, it left us with a lot of questions. For me, I asked if this was another Alien ship (If you recall from Automata, we did discover a ship buried deep underground) and what of this particular Bunker? Is it a copy or is it the original which somehow got swept up somehow. We talk about the how's a bit later.
Post dungeon you are left asking more questions than not.
Revisiting NieR Automata when you are in control of 9S after the giant fight with Eve, I take note that 2B's dialogue after the dungeon leads me to believe that she might be a version of 2B prior to when 9S cut off the data transmission after discovering some kind of glitch within The Bunker's database - most likely before the backdoor opening up for the Machine lifeforms to inhabit the Bunker's systems and infecting all of YoRHa who were still connected to its systems prior to its demise.
It's my opinion that this 2B and 9S were that prior to 9S pausing the upload before the fall of YoRHa.
Back to FFXIV....
We are given another exploration/fetch quest for the logs inside The Bunker. We learn about YoRHa's function, find some data here and there, have the ability to check out 2B's room and just relive some nostalgia while listening to familiar NieR music.
The dwarves begin to blame Anogg and Konogg for the events leading up to the destruction of their village, 2B comes to their aid against the angry mob and Anogg then disappears as if to have a "crisis of personal faith" or something like that leaving Konogg to deal with the village's vitriol and him solely trying to make things right - only to have him retreat away in the caves again, pining for Anogg to come back.
The side quest also glimpses into the twins past, including encountering a familiar white orb while trying to find Konogg after he's greeted with more vitriol. We're lead back into the Bunker and to the Alien ship which we're treated with a scene when the echo shows us a glimpse of Anogg and Konogg's past, what eventually happens to Anogg and Konogg encountering a white orb, which spawns what looks like a copy of Anogg.
Once again, more and more questions.
We then get to patch 5.5 - The Tower at Paradigm's breach.
We find Konogg at the white orb at the alien ship again with the white orb (which we all now know is a Seed of destruction/resurrection - see Drakengard references there) and an unconscious Konogg followed by a wave of 2P's emerging from it.
By the way, did anyone get Femmebot vibes sans Austin Powers when we saw all of those 2Ps just appear? Just me? Okay.
We are then joined by Anogg, 2B and 9S - the femmebot 2Ps do a thing and suddenly we see a giant white tower popping out into the sky looming past The Bunker. After some dialogue I now firmly believe that the version of 2B and 9S are the ones prior to the paused upload as I mentioned above from the events of Automata. Going thru the Tower fights themselves I felt confident of that conclusion.
We are greeting with hacking and the network - odd how non-androids like us can access the network of machines, but I won't question it. It was pretty cool! The first fight we are greeting by a familiar Gestalt. Further in we encounter a second fight and more bosses from another NieR series not of Automata, but of the stories before it.
The elevator mini bosses were annoying and actually fairly challenging - but have different names from the ones from Automata themselves (and greater pushovers).
But that final boss.... you just know at this point was a marriage between Drakengard and NieR games across. I never thought my character would be on the rooftop overlooking all of Tokyo/Shinjuku and dodging incoming trains and what I believe is the Square Enix building during mechanics. (I've visited that building several occasions in Shinjuku and it looks very much like that so.. XD )
We've reached the end of the fight - Anogg comes to grips that she is not a dwarf, passes a letter to give to Konogg (to which we never know what was written..) and then uploads herself into the data stream while 2B and 9S are trying to close the rift between worlds. If you played Drakengard you'll recall how the Seeds of Destruction work along with a certain final battle and an alternate version of Earth.
As the dust settles, we see a lifeless 2B and 9S laying together in the same fashion of Automata's ending and a Pod playing back a final audio log from 2B, what seems like is directed to the player directly.
The Tower then becomes unstable and you retreat back to the town. Arriving you have more dialogue with the dwarves and more banter between them. Beyond that, Konogg decides to leave and learn all he can about the objects leading up to YoRHa and the Orbs.
For the next five weeks we are greeted with a weekly quest that some of the dwarves ask us to do mainly to get the town back to where it was before YoRHa trashed it. Each week we see Glagg going into bouts of Extreme emotional Bipolar behavior (reminisce to the red eye virus from Drakengard)
The final week of the quest the chief tells us Glagg was found at the end of the alien spaceship, face down but then is revived like nothing happened and all is well.
Five point Five-Five drops.
The chief asks us to look for Konogg which takes us to Eulmore. We speak with a merchant who says that Konogg made an order with him and asks us to deliver it to him - in the shanty town below Eulmore.
We're greeted with another cutscene of Konogg trying to figure out how to utilize the orbs to bring his sister back. After several emotional and brief scenes, we see a helmet-less Anogg taking Konogg's hand, exclaiming that there's an "entire world to explore" and they walk out, hand in hand, into the light...
I guess... take that scene as you will... it was vague, short but really emotional.
You arrive in Konogg's shack and he is nowhere to be found aside from his own hat which he left behind. You return to the village and speak with the chief which you're given an option of how to handle the item Konogg did not claim. The chief says at the moment there's nothing else to be done.
And that's it...
Overall summary.
My thoughts: The story was very YOKO TARO. Anyone who has ever played a NieR or Drakengard game knows that YT is very notorious for his vagueness and depressing undertones when it comes to any of his stories. I've read thru a lot of the comments from both NieR fans and people who have never played any of the games.
Some of the naysayers saying this raid/story had no place in XIV - respectfully I disagree to a point. A lot of us found the raid tier fun and being able to obtain gear and items from these raids were awesome. I would be lying if I said I wasn't expecting the ending we got from the conclusion. To be honest, I was hoping for an ending fitting for XIV - but again, TARO.
I recommend to anyone who haven't played NieR or Drakengard to take a little time to watch some playthru videos or check out Wiki's for a readers digest version of the events to get an idea - personally I recommend video playthru's because there's a ton of dialogue being left out of a Wiki. You don't get the same feelings which I can understand a lot of non-Nier gamers feedback towards it.
Did this storyline belong in XIV?
Truthfully, I enjoyed it. But I would have wanted more character development and a backstory and maybe a better explanation. This is an XIV game and usually we have loose ends tied up, albeit they can take forever at least we get a lot of backstory. I'm not a game designer or a scenario writer so I don't have a horse in that race nor have the expertise.
The whole "Seeds of Destruction/Resurrection" are still a bit of a mystery to me (I haven't touched Drakengard in years) and it leaves to an open interpretation of if they exist on any of the other shards since there's clearly more than one of them. And since TARO did say NieR is officially canon to XIV now... who knows what the future holds.
The rewards:
I will be the first to say I was pleasantly surprised at the end of the Copied Factory we could all get a 2B attire crate. That, aside from the 9S glamour we never got, was the biggest thing any fan wanted. We also saw two versions of the Pod (Black and White) 2B and 2P minions, 2B and 9S hairstyles, a myriad of epic music (original scores and mixes - my god Kaine was incredible) and a 9S minion I rolled a 96 on the first day and STILL got out rolled for it!
While this raid has given us a ton of rewards, more so than the other alliance raids have given us, what I found disappointing was the lack of 9S attire and a wishful hoping mount of that of the Flight Unit. If I was betting on any horse I would of put $20.00 down we were going to get the Flight Unit as a mount at the end of the storyline.
But I was wrong.
And like many, I got my hopes up on the drops that never came to be. I think it's because Yoshi P said or apparently was quoted to say something like "If you can imagine it, chances are it will be obtainable"
A lot of people were thinking we'd get a NieR weapon, a Flight Unit mount, 9S attire - so my one actual negative feedback to this, if that quote is believed to be true (I cannot find said quote anywhere) that no, we did not get everything we imagined.
We definitely got a lot out of this - but I'm greedy like many of you. We do have the Flight Unit assets in the game as well as the 9S good boy's clothes. Would it have killed you Yoshi P to let us have just these extra two things? Regardless, I'm glad we got what we did at least...
My final takeaway. Did I enjoy this story and this raid?
I loved the hell out of this raid. Would I say it's my favorite? Not at all. It was the most challenging one aside from the Orlandeau fight, and I love reliving nostalgia like this. The levels were designed beautifully, we had side quests between patches that acted as more confusing fillers than just... well, normal fillers (which didn't happen in the other alliance raids) the mechanics of the fights I found were orchestrated very well.
My critique of why I don't find it my favorite is because of the lack of backstory.
"How long were the Androids and machine lifeforms on Norvrandt? Those buildings are rusted right out. Was the bunker always in orbit and did that alien ship somehow get confiscated by the YoRHa puppets? Where were they when Vauthry was still reigning? How did they react when the flood of light was pushed by by the darkness?"
I actually really liked the idea that the dwarves were involved indirectly with this. Unpopular opinion - Personally I would have loved to see Cid and Nero have something to do with this since machines are their bread and butter. Maybe haul over a broken Flight Unit for them to repair and all of that... (I STILL WANT THAT MOUNT COME ONNNN!) *cough*
It didn't hinder me that wasn't the case anyways. The amount of quirkiness you saw with Automata fit the bill in terms of using the Dwarves.
By quirky I meant probably almost always drunk.
As for the story - I think I left my thoughts in the TL;DR parts, and as much as I enjoyed the story it did feel somewhat short, vague and not something I am used to in XIV. Do I think it was bad. No. Not at all. Do I think that it fit the XIV narrative of "putting a nice bow on it and calling it a day?" Also, no.
I think it's because I'm an XIV player first. I enjoy the storytelling aspect of this game. I love getting a resolve, character development and a conclusion. We got that with YoRHa but it wasn't the one "we" got what we are used to with playing XIV. This ending was definitely befitting that of a NieR game and that is kind of where I draw a line in the sand on difference. I kept an open mind about Anogg and Konogg's story because it was about them. It went from a couple of kooky inventors to one of tragic loss to sheer desperation and potentially going into a dark place.
When people say "what was the point of the dwarves being used for NieR?" well... to me it was not about them. It was about a brother and sister. 2B, 9S the Warrior of Light, the machines and the dwarven village was literally along for the ride. That was my honest takeaway of the story overall.
And I think the fact that Yoshida listened to a lot of the fans who wanted 2B glamour in the first place gave us this opportunity for people who aren't familiar with NieR and Drakengard to possibly explore the backstory of these great games and its amazing and unique storytelling. It was even suggested to go and play these games before jumping into the raids and the story before they were released to give you an idea of what to expect. I think it gave us a lot more though in terms of engagement with other fans or people just new or unfamiliar to the NieR/Drak storylines. I also believe that NieR fans like myself enjoyed it that much more because (Insert Captain America - I understood that reference.GIF) of so many references and that it truly is canon to XIV.
I hope that we do get the Flight Unit mount and the 9S glamour that most of us want to see. It doesn't hinder my experience or thoughts either way.
I liked this story. I got the references. I felt feels. And now I'm ready to move forward to Pandaemonium.
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05-26-2021, 04:47 AMMaikoRainesYoRHa: Dark Apocalypse - A summary, feelings and Final Thoughts, beginning to [E]nd
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05-26-2021, 05:23 AMWyssahtyn
I guess given how brain dead the average alliances tend to be, the nier raids could be construed as "difficult". I found them all to be a step back in difficulty respectively to their Ivalice counterparts. Nor do they hold a candle to Wiping City and Dun Scaith in their heydays.
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05-26-2021, 05:50 AMMaikoRainesPerhaps I could have worded it differently. Not to compare it to savage, extreme or unreal content. I should of edited it as "as far as an alliance raid is concern, it's harder than the previous"Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn
When the mini boss tank mechanics were introduced it was anything but braindead. XD
But I get where you're coming from. -
05-26-2021, 06:31 AMBright-Flower
Having played Nier and Automta, and knowing the gist of Drakengard thanks to youtube videos, I loved the gameplay/rewards/environments of the raids (even if the Tower needed more visual environment variety).
Butt he story was bad and hardly even there. IMO they should have incorporated a version of the Automata stuff into FFXVI lore rather than this 'they came from another world and then left' story we got. -
05-26-2021, 06:43 AMMaikoRainesI mean... I can't disagree that the story was definitely lacking a bit. I felt the character development was there but to a point. I do mention it could have all been done better. I actually liked Anogg and Konogg and wished that they could of had so much more backstory than just "one day a brother and sister were wandering in a cave when suddenly..." sort of deal. I do also agree with you on the notion of adding exclusive unique elements to XIV aside from the music we did get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
It's only so canon to a point that they arrived and we know of their existence.
Who knows what the distant future holds. I do know for MSQ we did have to complete certain alliance raids to advance that story. Who knows... maybe that element will show up again and we'll get some unique quests down the road. Not anytime soon. Or maybe even at all... -
05-26-2021, 10:53 AMZohar_Lahar
The whole thing feels so bizarre and inconsequential to everything else on Norvrandt it might as well be a dream sequence or an over-the-top prank by the fae. The whole thing has so many unexplained problems:
1. The events are acknowledged by no one outside of Komra. Somehow none of the Scions, the Dwarf beast-tribe quests, or any of the citizens of Eulmore who should be able to see the
Puppet's Bunker and Tower at Paradigm's Breach on a clear day have any awareness of what is going on in the YorHa raids.
2. Not only did the machine lifeforms escape any kind of Sin Eater attack, despite being in Vauthry's backyard, somehow Emet-Selch did not notice the alien presence on the First. Or Mitron & Loghrif, if they've been here since before the Flood.
3. At no point is it explained why the Copied Factory exists, why 2P acted with treachery, why she turned into a horde of twitchy mannequins after being defeated by 2B, why the Puppet's Bunker exists, or why the sadistic Red Girl wanted to "open the gates" to Tokyo.
4. The epilogue with Konogg is just as incoherent as the rest of the raid and the plot point with Glagg is seemingly abandoned.
5. Finally, there's the unspoken implication of what happens with Yorha and the Seed of Destruction in the original timeline where Black Rose caused the First to rejoin with the Source. -
05-26-2021, 01:12 PMElizar_Naki
I'm gonna have to jump on the negativity train on this one. There were a lot of very basic who/what/when/where/why/how questions that never get an answer--it'd probably take me half an hour or more to type up every unresolved issue I could find in this raid series's narrative style, and the above commenters have proven that I didn't find them all. And tbh, I'm kinda tired of hearing "because TARO" as an excuse for it (a couple of my FC mates refuse to hear any sort of criticism of the guy, and it irks the crap out of me). I've so far only played Automata (done some basic research on the Taro-verse beyond that and have Replicant 1.22 on my backlog), and vague as that game could be sometimes, it still felt far more coherent and informative than this did. As far as any of us find out, the only in-universe reason for any of this happening was basically "A portal did it. LOOK AT ALL THE SHINY REFERENCES!" And I'm sorry, but while I'm sure that might be enough for Taro's most die-hard fans, I'll be needing a LOT more info than what we got to call this raid story anything even close to "good."
The bosses were fun, though. I'll give the series props for interesting fight mechanics, but story? Probably my least favorite raid series to date. -
05-26-2021, 02:09 PMICountFrom0
I find myself thinking, more and more, about the merger of the flower, and the network.
I can't reach any conclusion that even starts to look like good news. -
05-26-2021, 02:51 PMNaoki34
I find that the people I meet in raid alliances mostly don't seem to understand the notion of avoiding aoe or learning a boss's paterns quickly. Knowing that the content is relatively casual.
The reference to Nier 2021 is too obvious as a subliminal message to say: "Buy our remastered !"
And the ending seems to tell us: "You might get a sequel to Drakenguard."
And probably also: "Buy our future Nier games !"
Not caring about the general consistency with the first reflection, a good dose of consented suspension of disbelief, I found the Nier raid really fun. And with each raid, it felt a little more Nier/Nier Automata.
If you're too picky about consistency, you'll just spend your time not liking it.
After all, Square Enix is the publisher of these games, between the constant fan service in FFXIV patting the fans on the back. With each new content: "Did you see? We know you like this FF, we thought of you."
I find that the armor skin is no longer renewed and is content to do fan service, I would like more armor exclusive to FFXIV, but it remains definitely a patchwork for fan service.
I say that, but I really like this MMO for its gameplay. -
05-26-2021, 04:41 PMMaikoRainesI 100% wholeheartedly agree with you on all of your points you touched. I couldn't agree more. A lot of my friends/FC mates also touched on a lot of these points post epilogue and we were like "How does a giant, rusted out factory just go unchecked like that by basically all of the big bads and, in turn, why did none of YoRHa get involved against the Sin Eaters etc etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar
My love for YOKO TARO games is the reason I'm more or less critical of the outcome of the raid. I'm hoping I don't come off as an apologist or anything like that from my post overall. That wasn't my aim at all. I've been playing the NieR/Drakengard games for decades now and it's just... not what I was expecting it to be at the end. Even if we all got what we wanted (9S glam, Flight Unit mounts, glamourable YoRHa weapons etc) I'd still be somewhat critical of the story. I think the build up was amazing but the landing just... didn't stick at the end. If that makes any sense...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizar_Naki
Fan service/crossovers have been a thing that has been done more or less successfully in the past with XIV. The XV event actually had some great story and dialogue - to me, if I didn't already play and beat XV at the time I would of wanted to play it just so I could learn what it was all about. The Final Fantasy Tactics/XII mix we've been and currently getting have seemed to work as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki34
We've also had little crossovers such as Monster Hunter World, GARO, Yo Kai - none of them had a huge impact in the world overall - they were just fun and quirky things to do. The NieR raid just seemed like, it hyped it the hell up, got us into it and then just pulled the carpet right from out under our feet.
Again, I don't want to sound ungrateful. We got some amazing glam and items out of it.
But a good story is what grips me and many others.
But yes, overall, all of you have posted some amazing feedback. So, thank you for contributing to my post with your own.