Fire II

Fire II is really bad.

It's so bad that spamming Freeze and maintaining Thunder II is better at Levels 35-49. I don't mean that it's more convenient (though it is), I mean that it does significantly more damage.

I don't even want to tell new Black Mages at this level range that Freeze spam is better, because it confuses them at Level 50+ and it upsets them that such an "oversight" could be possible.

It used to be 170 potency at the end of ARR, 100 in Heavensward, 80 in Stormblood, and has been totally unusable at levelcap ever since.

At least buff it so Freeze spam isn't ever optimal.

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Originally Posted by Luin

Fire II is really bad.

It's so bad that spamming Freeze and maintaining Thunder II is better at Levels 35-49. I don't mean that it's more convenient (though it is), I mean that it does significantly more damage.

I don't even want to tell new Black Mages at this level range that Freeze spam is better, because it confuses them at Level 50+ and it upsets them that such an "oversight" could be possible.

It used to be 170 potency at the end of ARR, 100 in Heavensward, 80 in Stormblood, and has been totally unusable at levelcap ever since.

At least buff it so Freeze spam isn't ever optimal.

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Really it just needs to grant Astral Fire III. The real issue isn't its potency but that it forces you to use F3 at those levels.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Really it just needs to grant Astral Fire III. The real issue isn't its potency but that it forces you to use F3 at those levels.

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Respectfully I disagree with lack of Astral Fire III being the real issue.

The biggest issue with Fire II is that it's meant to be the spammer spell for AoE fire phase, but its cost is twice that of its single target sibling Fire I. This means you can only afford to cast it twice before you have to switch back to ice. That's the root of its biggest losses.

If it's meant to be the spammer spell for AoE, make it cost the same as the spammer spell for single target and give it enough damage to make it worth casting five times once you average in the Freeze and Fire III recovery. If the base single target rotation from 35 to 49 is meant to be

Blizzard III > Thunder > Fire III > Fire > Fire > Fire > Fire > Fire

then the base AoE rotation should be

Freeze > Thunder II > Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II

and the MP costs and potencies should be adjusted to support this.

But is it actually?

Freeze - 100
Thunder II - 150
Transpose
Fire II - 112
Fire II - 128
Fire II - 128

= 618 Potency in 14 Seconds
so 44.14 potency per second

Freeze x 4 - 400
Thunder II - 150

= 550 potency in 12.5 seconds
so 44 potency per second

This is with AF2. With AF3 the third Fire II will be buffed to 144 potency and the potency per second of that rotation will be 45.29.

Yeah the difference is abysmal. But the Freeze rotation is not "much stronger".

But of course if you use Fire III in that rotation instead of Transpose you will lose out on dps because it's single target.

But Fire III is even in single target a dps loss before you get AF3 on lvl 40 - wich is just another reason why BLM needs a rework for the leveling phase.

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Originally Posted by Tint

But is it actually?

Freeze - 100
Thunder II - 150
Transpose
Fire II - 112
Fire II - 128
Fire II - 128

= 618 Potency in 14 Seconds
so 44.14 potency per second

Freeze x 4 - 400
Thunder II - 150

= 550 potency in 12.5 seconds
so 44 potency per second

This is with AF2. With AF3 the third Fire II will be buffed to 144 potency and the potency per second of that rotation will be 45.29.

Yeah the difference is abysmal. But the Freeze rotation is not "much stronger".

But of course if you use Fire III in that rotation instead of Transpose you will lose out on dps because it's single target.

But Fire III is even in single target a dps loss before you get AF3 on lvl 40 - wich is just another reason why BLM needs a rework for the leveling phase.

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The one problem here is that Transpose is not instant. It takes time from the end of the cast, to use transpose, then to start casting again. I don't know exactly how long it takes to use transpose, however, if we take it as half a second, the it is 618 potency in 14.5 seconds, which is a potency per second of 42.62.

We can even work out the break point, where if transpose takes X time to cast, the 2 would be equal. That time is 0.05 seconds (0.045454545454....... to be exact). Transpose definitely takes more time to cast, therefore it will always be less potency per second.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The one problem here is that Transpose is not instant. It takes time from the end of the cast, to use transpose, then to start casting again. I don't know exactly how long it takes to use transpose, however, if we take it as half a second, the it is 618 potency in 14.5 seconds, which is a potency per second of 42.62.

We can even work out the break point, where if transpose takes X time to cast, the 2 would be equal. That time is 0.05 seconds (0.045454545454....... to be exact). Transpose definitely takes more time to cast, therefore it will always be less potency per second.

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Damn you are right xD

All my math is useless again Q.Q

Fire 2 should cost 800mp and have a 2.5sec cast time. A high level trait should make it grant AF3 just like Fire 3 does.

Boom: now you have a low-level bread and butter AoE suitable for three targets or more, and a high level way to swap from Ice to Fire without having to cast a "cold" Flare.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Respectfully I disagree with lack of Astral Fire III being the real issue.

The biggest issue with Fire II is that it's meant to be the spammer spell for AoE fire phase, but its cost is twice that of its single target sibling Fire I. This means you can only afford to cast it twice before you have to switch back to ice. That's the root of its biggest losses.

If it's meant to be the spammer spell for AoE, make it cost the same as the spammer spell for single target and give it enough damage to make it worth casting five times once you average in the Freeze and Fire III recovery. If the base single target rotation from 35 to 49 is meant to be

Blizzard III > Thunder > Fire III > Fire > Fire > Fire > Fire > Fire

then the base AoE rotation should be

Freeze > Thunder II > Fire III > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II > Fire II

and the MP costs and potencies should be adjusted to support this.

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The MP cost and cast time aren’t doing it any favours, but it would give it a use beyond the terrible breakpoint, substituting for Fire III in AoE situations with 4 or more targets, because it consumes less MP than Fire III and is worth more potency.

The Base AoE rotation would be Freeze > Thunder II > Fire II x4 > Transpose, but I think the MP cost issue with Transpose is still enough to make it a setback, but it requires a lot less work to make it useful compared to keeping Fire III in the AoE rotation.

There is no skill in this game called Fire 2.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

There is no skill in this game called Fire 2.

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What do you think the II behind Fire means? Fire double i? Are you trolling or have you really never heard of roman numerals so that you would know that II means 2?