In certain dungeons LNC/DRG cannot roll Need for gear it can equip

I have been noticing when I get ARR dungeons in my daily levelling roulette, if playing as dragoon, I am not able to roll Need for the heavy armour that seems to be the intended gear set for the class.

Date & Time: any
Frequency: always
World name: any
Character name: any
Retainer name: n/a
NPC name: n/a
Monster name: n/a
Class/Level: any
Party or solo: party
In-game time: any
Area and coordinates: I have not tested everything but I believe it is "all dungeons below level 50 that were recently changed from dropping aetherial gear to new dungeon-specific gear", such as (but not only) Haukke Manor and Aurum Vale.
Housing: n/a

Steps:

1. Play one of the relevant dungeons as LNC/DRG with a party, so you have to roll for loot.

2. If a gear piece drops that is labelled as equippable by "tanks and LNC/DRG", observe that you are not allowed to roll Need for it.

3. You are, however, able to roll Need for items marked "Disciple of War" and I believe this is also the type of gear you receive as a free piece at the end of the dungeon.

On the one hand this arrangement may be deliberate, as DRG is still receiving gear it can equip and tanks get exclusive priority to the heavy armour sets, but it doesn't seem right that all the new gear sets (as far as I have observed) have been marked as equippable by LNC/DRG but they are not allowed to have it.

(Assuming that this is indeed an error, it may also affect the as-yet-unannounced new melee class for 6.0 if that will share gear with DRG and you have already programmed whatever determines its dungeon gear drops.)

Nah, that's an ancient thing. I remember complaining about this pre-4.0. Something to do with the awkward pseudo-tank-ish gear. It's certainly not really any good as tank gear, even though tanks are the only ones that can roll need on it. It's got better defense than equivalent dps gear (last I remember), but I can't remember if it's got any better stats otherwise.

Still, does kinda suck to be a newbie LNC seeing gear you can equip but you can't roll Need. At least it's leveling gear, so it's not like you're missing out on much for very long.

Just another instance of 2.0's mess of an equipment pool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Nah, that's an ancient thing. I remember complaining about this pre-4.0. Something to do with the awkward pseudo-tank-ish gear. [...]

Just another instance of 2.0's mess of an equipment pool.

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That's the thing - it's not 2.0 gear, although it was added to 2.0 dungeons. This is specifically all the sets that were added in... 5.3, I think? Every dungeon that dropped "aetherial" gear had that removed and replaced with three new sets of unique* gear, labelled as Resilience (tanks/DRG), War and Magic. They chose to make these new sets equippable by DRG and picked out ARR armour types that are equippable by DRG, then didn't actually let DRG roll for them.

* it's all recycled models of course, but there are some neat things in there like House Fortemps armour from the Stone Vigil, Aurum mage set using the level 60 Valerian healer model, and a totally unique pair of mage gloves from Toto-Rak.

I don't recall the previous 2.0 dungeon gear having much that could be equipped by tanks/DRG in the first place. Where the dungeons have unique gear, it was split along tanks/War/Magic.

Hm. Just skimming through, Dzemael, Cuttter's Cry, Halatali. You mention Toto-Rak, but even that's got 2.0 gear for tank/DRG. But yes, is passing strange that they'd go back and add even more of this weird half-gear. Hard to say if they're following a pattern, or just lazy with the replacement code.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Hm. Just skimming through, Dzemael, Cuttter's Cry, Halatali. You mention Toto-Rak, but even that's got 2.0 gear for tank/DRG.

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Are you skimming Garland Tools? Ive just been there and discovered all their gear lists are out of date for those dungeons. All the newer pieces are in the database if you know to look for them, but they're not listed there.

Anyway, so we have a list of what used to be there, and generally they're incomplete sets.

For example, the old list for Toto-Rak has:

For tanks/DRG:
Warden's Barbut
Eternal Shade
Warden's Gauntlets

For DPS:
Nighthawk Visor
Brigand's Acton
Brigand's Gloves

For mages:
Torturer's Monocle
Ascetic's Halfrobe
Ascetic's Tights
Torturer's Duckbills

So for the missing pieces in those dungeons, new items have now been added to fill those gaps. There are pants and shoes for the Warden and Brigand sets, gloves for the Ascetic set and belts for all three.

Generally the ARR dungeons used to either drop unique weapons and patchy sets or just aetherial gear, or they dropped aetherial weapons and unique gear (only really the first three dungeons and Brayflox's Longstop). Now everything has its own set of both weapons and gear.

Looking over the older lists, it does seem that the few old ones with unique incomplete sets generally were tank/DRG (Dzemael being an oddball with separate tank/DRG and tank-only sets; I wonder who can roll on those). But the complete sets are divided up as tank/war/magic, and dungeons with aetherial gear can also have tank-only gear.

If you look at Garland Tools' data for patch 5.3 under Items - Equipment: DoW/DoM and start browsing from the 201-300 tab, it has a list of all the new dungeon weapons and gear added to ARR in that patch. Over a hundred pieces of new equipment altogether.

I started with Garland, but it was a pain, so I skimmed through loot on consolegameswiki.

But I see what you mean. I just checked a couple pieces, and they happened to be 2.0 gear, but looking more, I see they did basically fill in the sets. Halatali has head and chest for tank/DRG from 2.0, filled in hands, belt, legs, and feet in 5.3.

But still, back on point, it seems likely that the reason LNC/DRG can't roll Need on their gear is just a carryover from those new items being extrapolated out from the old gear that they could never roll Need on in the first place. Might be something deeper within the Need/Greed system, where it's not actually strictly "can player wear this?" and maybe it's divided by role. It's not classed as "dps gear," so dps doesn't get to Need on it. Just kinda speculating on a possibility for why it's remained this way all these years. Would be nice if it were changed, but wouldn't shock me if it simply can't.