Before I was even into Shadowbringers, I took interest in Akadaemia Anyder. When I completed Shadowbringers main story, the first thing I did was unlock Akadaemia Anyder and did it before doing anything else including the patch stories. Akadaemia Anyder was instantly my favorite Shadowbringers dungeon. However, come patch 5.5, Akadaemia Anyder was instantly overtaken by Paglth'an as my favorite dungeon.
Let me start off with, I have a HUGE love for dragons, loved Heavensward, love Ishgard and Anyx Trine. However, what they did with the story in 5.5 was absolutely the best. Even better than the entire Heavensward story.
If you ever get matched with my Moltres Rider in Paglth'an, you can see me using the dote emote on the Telodragons, the dragon that you ride, and a couple other dragon-like creatures. You can also catch me using the charmed emote on Tiamat and Lunar Bahamut.
I love the direction that they went with Tiamat, using the porxies to remove her tempering without even knowing whether it would even work on a creature so powerful. Love the explanation as to why it worked, she saw Bahamut as an equal, not as a god.
The fact that Tiamat was worried about her children says that behind her beastly figure, deep down inside, she is just a sweetheart.
All these things caused me to have a great fondness for Tiamat. Now she is not the best dragon by design. By design, it would be Vishap, followed by the dragons in Syrcus Tower along with the NPC dragons in Anyx Trine. However, it is Tiamat's story in 5.5 that attracts me.
Lunar Bahamut is a beautiful design as well, but I prefer the traditional dragon designs the most. Hence, Vishap and the others that I mentioned.
What is everybody else's thoughts on Tiamat and 5.5?
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05-01-2021, 01:40 AMMoltresRider5.5 is by far my favorite patch in the entire game [Spoilers]
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05-01-2021, 05:33 AMCilia
Personally, as a Dungeons & Dragons player I just find it funny how Bahamut and Tiamat have effectively swapped their traditional fantasy roles in this game.
5.5 was OK, but I'm pretty sure they're saving the juicy bits for 5.55, when shit really hits the fan. -
05-01-2021, 06:47 AMBright-FlowerEven in earlier final fantasy games it's swapped I believe. In the first FF game I think bahamut was an npc that guided you on part of your quest, and Tiamat was one of the four fiends you had to kill. The original FF took a lot from D&D, even the spell level/sot system in a sense in its original release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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05-01-2021, 01:55 PMVyrerusIn FF1, Bahamut gives you the class promotion when you bring him the proof of courage from the Castle of The Ordeal. The ordeal being either sailing and then canoeing or flying and then walking to the castle through hordes of wyverns, rakshasas, basilisks, and other nasty beasts, only to have to wade through Medusas, Red Gargoyles, Nightmares, and a Zombie Dragon. All in order to claim your proof beside the throne at the top, which has taken the form of a Rat Tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
Tiamat is the fiend of the Air, and resides in the Lufeinian's Floating Fortress, which in the original version was a highly advanced satellite station with robot NPCs. Tiamat was so mighty narratively, that she drove the Lufeinians out of their own capital. The Lufeinians are masters of magic, selling the highest levels of black and white magic in their isolated town. It would also seem that Tiamat somehow turned their own machines on them, though that is never explained, but aside from the NPC robots who help you to access the fort, all other robots are inherently hostile. Including the infamous WarMech, which is capable of firing radiation beams more powerful than any magic, more powerful than Tiamat herself.
So yeah, they definitely swapped in their roles. -
05-01-2021, 04:59 PMMistakeNotYou do know that neither of them were invented by Dungeons&Dragons, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Tiamat is from ancient Babylonian mythology, where she was some kind of sea goddess who may or may not have had dragon shape, but who did, in at least some versions of the myths, give birth to a host of monsters including dragons and sea serpents.
Bahamut is from Arab legends, where he is a giant fish supporting the Earth. No association with dragons at all. The name Bahamut is probably derived from the biblical Behemoth. -
05-01-2021, 07:42 PMVyrerusAs with many fantasy games, D&D co-opted cool names and myths and re-imagined them for its setting. The D&D Bahamut is the first time it's represented as a dragon, and D&D is the big inspiration for Final Fantasy at its roots, so that is the Bahamut being referenced.Quote:
Originally Posted by MistakeNot
Tiamat is represented as a sea serpent, since she is a goddess of the sea and primordial chaos. She too, had her name co-opted by D&D, and she fits the bill even more for a dragon. Yet, when referenced by Final Fantasy, they are largely referencing the D&D counterpart. -
05-02-2021, 12:09 AMCilia
To clarify (since it seems I must), when I talk about "traditional fantasy" I mean fantasy as popularized by Dungeons and Dragons, not mythological namesakes.
Bahamut's mythological namesake is a gigantic fish (or something) from Arabian myth (admittedly this is the one I'm least versed on). As popularized in Dungeons and Dragons, he is the Platinum Dragon, god-king of the good-aligned metallic dragons and more often than not a benefactor to mortals. In the original Final Fantasy (which takes a lot from D&D; pretty much the whole bestiary, sans Chaos himself, is lifted wholesale) he serves the same purpose, though his role and alignment have varied wildly since.
Tiamat's mythological namesake is a primordial goddess of the oceans in Mesopotamian myth, though she was eventually killed by Marduk and her body split into the heavens and earth. As popularized by D&D she is the five-headed god-queen of the evil-aligned chromatic dragons (or, in other words, she is the Chromatic Dragon). This was probably intended to carry over to the original Final Fantasy, though due to sprite palette limitations her five heads all share the same color (green; D&D Tiamat has one green, white, blue, black, and red head). She usually serves as a boss if not an endgame boss, with her original Fiend incarnation being the last boss defeated before facing Chaos himself.
While it's not a 1 for 1 comparison, the two have more or less swapped roles (or at least alignments after a fashion), and being a long-time fantasy gamer I find it kind of funny. Not bad, just funny.