First, I didn't write this thread with the purpose to mingle with other people. I would be satisfy even if only the ffxiv's job design team can see this. I've read enough opinions from the people in the tank forum in the past 3 years and I feel it would be a waste of time to try to convince the people who already addicted to the conditions of the tank job as they are right now.
I read some of DRK request and What I feel is that : DRK do not required haste and counter/proc attacks. If all DRK have are haste and counter/proc attack then DRK is nothing more than a reincarnation of "FF11 WARRIOR". If you replace salted earth and abyssal drain with haste and counter/proc atks and change the name of mp bar to stamina then this will be undeniable.
DRK is also not a revenge knight and the people doesn't became DRK because they want to have a revenge on anyone nor it is required for any crystal bearer to do so. Sidurgu didn't live to revenge, Fray didn't die trying to revenge anyone,Ompagne also didn't became DRK to start a revenge nor that he trained anyone to carried it. DRK being Revenge Knight is just a delusion of some player.
Further more, 100% uptime haste isn't great.
In Theory, have Blood Weapon gain haste effect back would fix some problem but the moment DRK press it the 2.4s weaving window that DRK have will be shrink down. Currently tank bis gear+food can give 2.4s gcd speed to DRK now if 15% attack speed buff is to be granted it would bring the gcd speed to around 2s. Keep in mind that many jobs action have animation lock duration.
Do you remember how much time/window DRK have to move out and move in to land a hit when boss cast a circle ground aoe? anyone want to test can try the first boss of "The Great Gubal Library [HARD]" and then imagine if you have more ogcd abilities to weave and your weaving window shrink down to 2.0.
It is going to be complicated in situation like E6S or E7S add phase that DRK have to constantly moving/ dodging aoe while landing an attack. Imagine on 1 side the party have DRK that have 2s gcd speed with no way to turn it off while having to weave Edge of Darkness/Shadow plus Reprisal/Low Blow proc in a situation that time is short and pass damage check or wipe mechanic is happening. On the other side the party have a PLD who have 2.4 gcd speed with ability to instant cast strong spells with a range of 25y.
Remember in the previous expansion haste was only active during blood weapon effect and can be extended by only delirium effect? which mean it's somewhat controllable and the strain on DRK by haste isn't too high.
DRK have 2 problems about the speed of gameplay.
1.The slowness of weaponskills animation.
Have you ever noticed why PLD weaponskills do not feel slow when it have 2.4 gcd speed same with DRK?
anyone who want to test this can teleport to the wolves's den and test the basic weaponskill combo on the dummy and you will realized that it's because DRK attacks. The animations are simply too slow. too slow to the point that it often caused the most awkward floor skating when moving while weaponskill animation isn't finished.
Why PLD single target combo doesn't feel slow when DRK single target combo feel so slow? Why requiescat+holy spirits doesn't feel slow like Bloodspiller spam despite having a 2.4s recast time equally? Bloodspiller have too much unnecessary movement and caused it to have an unnecessary long animation which bring the feeling of slowness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otFqTV_Rd6w.
If anyone is still do not realize than they can simply unlock NIN and compare Hard Slash+Syphon Strike vs Spinning Edge+Gust Slash with the same gcd speed on the training dummy[without huton].
Proof of how slow Hard Slash and Syphon Strike are : https://youtu.be/_NJiC4jbp44?t=32
Now compare this to other tank. Even Warrior basic single target combo are faster. Maim is faster than Hard Slash and Syphon Strike despite being a 2fold attack just like Hard Slash and Syphon Strike.
It is because the attack animation. If the problem of slowness required a fixing then the real solution is to increase animation speed of all DRK's Weaponskills by20%30% .
Comparison between the
x1.3 speed vs the current speed of Hard Slash = https://imgur.com/a/Xn2psQF
x1.3 Syphon Strike vs current speed Syphon Strike = https://imgur.com/a/59We7Wv
x1.3 Soul Eater vs current speed Soul Eater = https://imgur.com/a/B3T0TGW
[The top = x1.3 . The bottom = current speed]
I don't think having DRK speed in heavensward back is really going to fix the slowness because as it show in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrxzr_JUd4A DRK is skipping attack animation like mad which work as a stimulation to people who already addicted to it but seem like a mess of animation sequences to people who didn't. I don't mean it shouldn't have ogcd attack weaving in but the sequence should have be arranged to look like a real combo and animation does really need to look like it having a connection. We can look at GNB's continuation as an example.
2.The pacing
Another reason why PLD doesn't feel slow is because it have a good pacing with low recast time for attack ability [circle of scorn = 25s, spirits Within = 30s] and medium recast time with resource spender attacks. DRK have twice as long recast time for attack ability and the amount of time required to gathered the resources to spend the addition attacks is about the same if not longer than PLD [DRK spend the 60s gathering mp and only get to spend it on ogcd attack in raid buff window every 60s but PLD have cos and sw to use every 25-30s] which subsequently causing a pacing of DRK to be slower.
I think maybe it could be fixed by make adjustment like these
Salted Earth
[Learned at level 30 by simply level up]
Cost 3000 mp
[Lv52 Trait : Increase Blood Gauge by 5 everytime enemy suffered by damage from Salted Earth
Effect does not stack when hitting multiple targets.]
Effect fade [and aoe will immediately disappeared] if another Salted Earth is used while ability is still active.
Duration 12s
[Duration decreased to 12s so the full potency is reduced to 240]
Allow a targeting assist by have a ground target appeared right under the current target automatically so DRK only have to quickly press salted earth twice to place it without losing the ability to manually move and place the ground target aoe.
Abyssal Drain [ Moved down to LV 52]
Blood Gauge Cost : 20
Absorb 100% of damage dealt as hp
[3000 MP spend correctly = +2 apm]
- Stalwart Soul can replace unleash and only restore 300 mp
- Quietus would then be a combo skill from Stalwart Soul learned at lv 40 and simply have higher potency
Both Stalwart Soul and Quietus are to be changed to weaponskill [Enough with Spell aspect that we can't reap the benefit from it being a spell. I'm also not thrilled to be in a pickle everytime I got inflicted with silent status [deep dungeon/trap/etc] and have my aoe spell disabled]
- If Bloodspiller can't do anything else beside being an attack that only capable to deliver a potency then it could be remove and replace with a new weaponskill that turn into attack ability after execution. This weaponskill won't require resource but it will have 60s recast and function like "Savage Claw" that could be followed by "Abdomen Tear" but you only need 1 button/hot bar for it
Animation could be like this
The total duration of these 2 animation combined is = 2.4s. Animation skip won't be required.
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From what I've read in the past years it's appeared that there're several requests from other players to bring old lost animations back
however it can't be done without causing a button bloat with 6.0 and the futher expansions are expected to arrived eventually. If the old animations came back in shb then DRK could have about the same.. or more actions that needed to be put in a hot bar than PLD and when that happened when 6.0 and 7.0 came... the old animations would be a target to be eliminated again. Keep in mind that when having many actions caused controller user to feel uncomfortable there will be an adjustment no matter how much it ruin the job.
To deal with this in the long run I would suggest have Blood Weapon replaced by Dark Art and have it learned later on
Dark Art would then turn the single target combo and aoe combo to removed job actions [hard slash>power slash,spinning slash>scourge>, delirium>soul eater, stalwart soul>unleash,quietus>dark passenger] and act like a modified version of ten chi jin ability of ninja without movement restriction.
-Spinning Slash can replace Syphon Slash and be an action that restore hp instead of mp
-Delirium[heavensward] can replace soul eater and restore mp instead of hp
Carve and Spit
Potency : 500
Weaponskill
Addional Effect : Temporary upgrade Edge of Darkness to Edge of Shadow
Duration : 10s
Cost : 3000 MP
Recast : 60s
Edge of Darkness
Potency : 350
Ability single target
Recast : 30s, share recast time with Edge of Shadow
Edge of Shadow
Ability single target
Delivers a critical direct hit with a potency of 500
Recast : share recast time with Edge of Darkness
https://imgur.com/qPZyPzo
When Carve and Spit followed by Edge of Darkness & Shadow it look like a proper combo and take no more than 2.4s to finish both animations without the need to skip.
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There is no reason that DRK should be a slave to mp or have it bind DRK action too much
When DRK don't have mp they can't use dark attack like Edge of Shadow, can't use Dark Art, the ties to dark side is also severed, can't... even use TBN to protect themselves when it is ability that was promised to save them in the time of need. This is terrible.
In "Ishgardian's Justice" Quest we learned that MP isn't required to draw power from darkness but repeatedly do so would put us in danger
https://i.imgur.com/D1ujCdv.png
https://i.imgur.com/HLLbFjR.png
https://i.imgur.com/0qrE0eo.png
https://i.imgur.com/Zm5xSdZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/4pmqz6d.png
https://i.imgur.com/7itqqUG.png
[There is also no reason to flex dark side by keeping it up all the time. Everytime DRK used a dark ability they always draw the power from dark side]
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The current Delirium could be replace with something like this :
Anguish
Single Target
Range = 25y
Radius = 0
Damage over time, Potency 200
Duration : 15s
Action is changed to Requiem for the duration of the effect.
Recast 90s
Additional Effect : Trigger 500 aoe damage at the location of the target and absorb 100% of damage dealt as hp if the target died while under effect of Anguish before Requiem is active.
Requiem
Ends the effect of Anguish
Grant effect of Requiem and Dealing damage to the target
total damage = depend on remaining duration
Requiem Effect : Allow any action that required mp to be
used without cost. [No duration like a dark art in shadowsbringer]
Dark Mind could be a lv 35 defensive ability that reduce both physical and magical. Imo magical/physical damage difference would make healer feel more engaged if it was given to all healers instead meanwhile it only cause imbalance and button bloats as a tank defensive abilities.
TBN
While some player would claim that The Blackest Night is DRK's identity there is no proof backing why it need to be a barrier. The whole quest chain in that expansion is about a boy want to mend/heal/repair and then required player to use a soul eater then at the end it have the boy going crazy and summon a simulacrums to fight DRK. When the fight ended the boy promise to aid DRK in the time of need. TBN could be like Essential Dignity/living shadow and it would still make sense. There's no need to force DRK to reserve 3000 mp for this ability either. You the job design team doesn't need to heed the word of player who can only see it as a barrier. I don't want to force your hand but it would be interesting if DRK's TBN is something that can't be dupe by stacking Thrill of Battle with other defensive abilities. [The fact that TBN need to be reserve for a heavy attack that only came up around 1 minute or more while Sheltron,Heart of Stone can be used more frequently also make DRK have slower pacing than other tank]
DRK in futher expansions.
Printable View
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03-28-2021, 09:54 PMninnininDRK in futher expansions.
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03-28-2021, 11:43 PMItMeIf you want them to see it you should be contributing your thoughts to other threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninninin
SQEX has said many times that if we want them to see our feedback that starting a new thread won't help.
They take a look at long, robust threads full of discussion, so if your goal was for the job design team to see this you should have butten the bullet and mingled them in with others ideas.
PLD actually feels the slower of the two for me because Dark has a higher APM. Maybe PLD loops back to Requiescat faster, but the length of the jobs rotation doesn't mean much when DRKs rotation is basically nonexistent so it can juggle more oGCDs,Quote:
Originally Posted by ninninin
And I actually don't want them to give us faster animations. DRK looks plenty fast as is, especially considering you're swinging a sword as big as you are. If they gave us faster or shorter animations they would just look silly. -
03-29-2021, 11:49 AMDaulBan
I know brevity is the soul of wit but it's also the soul of getting people to read the third DRK giga-overhaul of the week.
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03-29-2021, 09:42 PMAC9Breaker
I thought posts had text limits, holy crap.
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03-29-2021, 10:27 PMItMeIf you edit your post you can make it longer than the text limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AC9Breaker
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03-30-2021, 10:50 PMDerio
Really just give blood weapon and Delirium the Bunshin effect to where you dont have to worry about skill speed or ping to perfectly fit 5GCDs in a tight window.