Suggestions for whatever may replace Ishgardian Restoration in 6.0

It's been a crazy, insane grind and because I started a couple days late, I won't make top 12 fishers on my server. I made a lot of money and got my Risensung Fisher title, optimized my gear, made some cool macros (slapping a battle /countdown on my fisher /cast for Umbral Duststorms was the single most clever thing I've ever done. And that's going to help on so many future fishing trips.)

But this isn't about me.

For the last few days, fellow gatherers have been complaining about their ill health. Not eating, not sleeping, not resting or taking a break to play with their friends for statics (yet another reason I'm not getting top 12 - I prioritized my Savage static tonight instead of trying to squeeze out another 20K points in Diadem.)

One of the friends in a linkshell was so sick on Monday he went to the hospital, fearing it was the virus.... no. He was having a heart attack. (And he joked, after he got out of the hospital, that all he could think about was losing his GSM ranking.)

All of a sudden the cute "drink water! don't die!" things we repeated to each other became much more real....

I get that the Restoration rankings were supposed to make it feel like a crafting World First effort, and also that the big push for each phase of the restoration is needed because otherwise the chunks would take all patch to get done.

However, we get into crafting and gathering because it is a SOLO effort, a true player vs environment effort, and we are trying to get our achievements or catch a rare fish or unlock a new title..... not necessarily to beat everyone else..

For the next version of this that will be included in 6.0, if there is one, (Dalmasca? Eulmore? We brainstormed lots of different places it might possibly be) keep the PVE titles for each phase, but please don't force us to grind until we have heart attacks or pass out or get sick. This reminds me of the old Pandemonium Warden nightmare in XI.

Other ideas for getting a unique title that my Diadem chat groups brainstormed:

* Highest score within the first 24 hours of time in the zone, so that the half afkers that can still hit two fingers on fish would lose out to someone spending true quality time in there. And if you are in there more than 24 total hours, you still earn points, just not towards the season's title rankings
* Eliminate unique titles for top 12 entirely and have anyone who completes X number of points within the phase get it, like the Risensung title, only a higher value is needed.
* Keep titles for top 12, but automatically skip any bastard who already has one from a previous phase, and also you can only get top 12 in ONE thing. There are people purposefully hogging multiple top 12 spots on the crafter side. Never underestimate the power of NA players to be cruel and mean spirited to each other

All that said, I don't regret my time in Diadem this last week! We're gonna make a cross world linkshell and hang out together in the future.

But if players are quite literally almost killing themselves...... then it's just poorly designed content. :(

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Originally Posted by Catwho

But if players are quite literally almost killing themselves...... then it's just poorly designed content. :(

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IMO, it's not the designers' job to teach restraint to players. People need to learn that, but it's not the job of the game designer to do it.

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Originally Posted by KeshLives

IMO, it's not the designers' job to teach restraint to players. People need to learn that, but it's not the job of the game designer to do it.

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Ethics in design are a thing. I actually literally study structural exploitation through systems like social media and 'gamification,' as well as exploitation of psychological vulnerabilities to intense FOMO anxiety that are shockingly common in well adjusted people who have never experienced an axiety disorder in their life.

Its kinda... a big thing, and its causing a lot of harm to society in general. So, no, it is in fact the designer's ethical obligation to not knowingly create harmful systems that cause people to have such intense negative reactions. No one knows they are vulnerable until it hits them and they are failing classes or skipping work doing this kinda stuff all night, and it isn't a matter of 'willpower' or 'self control.' These systems are insidious because they attack very vulnerable parts of the human mind, and some people just experience an unreal amount of anxiety as a response that they never have felt before in their lives. Not everyone who goes nutso is already someone who needs therapy or has a compulsive personality, which is kinda terrifying because its way more powerful an attack to control behavior than most people are ever exposed too.

SE isn't 'bad' for Ishgard Restoration accidently hitting these really intense psychological pressure points already exploited by stuff like Battlepasses and Gatcha mechanics, plenty of other designers try to implement them without monetization and don't realize its the mental pressure that is predatory and not the request for payment, but they absolutely should not implement the 6.0 version of 'PVP crafting' in the manner they did this one because it unquestionably was a harmful design.

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Originally Posted by KeshLives

IMO, it's not the designers' job to teach restraint to players. People need to learn that, but it's not the job of the game designer to do it.

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I do agree that it's on the player to learn self restraint and not the game to teach it. Players need to stop falling into the trap of "will do anything to get the reward". if you're not having fun, if you're putting your health at risk, then the reward is not worth it.

But design should also be reasonable for what this is - just a game. No piece of game content should be designed around requiring hundreds of hours of time commitment because that sort of investment in a game is unhealthy for anyone. That's bad design.

What SE should have done is designed the Restoration leaderboard competitions around skill (which is what they had originally told us the leaderboards were going to be about) instead of around time commitment. It would have solved some of the problems.

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Originally Posted by dezzmont

but they absolutely should not implement the 6.0 version of 'PVP crafting' in the manner they did this one because it unquestionably was a harmful design.

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After this round of it, if SE doesn't make some serious design changes most players aren't going to care enough to bother participating. It wasn't interesting enough to be worth it over a title that will always be tarnished by the botting accusations.

I have 0 points in all ishgardian restoration activities. I play a game to have fun ^_^

If you or anyone else's health is suffering from chasing whatever pixels or achievements give you a dopamine+serotonin boost, seek help. Seriously. :)

I had fun participating in restoration activities. I didnt try to grind for top spot on my server because THAT didnt sound fun.