What would make SCH viable ? (without complete rework)

It seems almost everyone in PvP agree SCH are way less viable than WHM and AST.

I asked some players, and they told me the main problems of the SCH is they need to attack in order to summon their Seraphin.
Also the Seraphin's Faery Gauge is only built by 3 skills, Broil III (basic dmg spell 1200dmg), Biolysis (Costs 1000MP, deals 800dmg, -20% heal for 15sec), and Aura Blast (AoE knockback with 45sec CD).

Aura Blast seems to have a too long CD to be a viable source for Seraphin. Biolysis is awesome but we can't spam it because it costs 1000MP, and I guess the basic attack of healers is not interesting enough to be used when so much dmg needs to be healed around.

And I heard the Seraphin AI was not smart enough and mostly randomly heals people who lost HP instead of targeting the one with less hp or the one you're healing (and healing another one if the target is 100% cause of your heal).
Heard too the Seraphin is too slow to heal when summoned, iirc.

Excogitation being way too weak (just 3000 heal, under condition (having HP getting below 50%), with a 45sec CD).

Do they have other problems ?

I was thinking of some solutions (not all at the same time, but more like picking some), like :
- lowering Aura Blast CD to 30sec.
- Forcing the 50 cost of Seraphin only (not up to 100 to improve its duration) in order to be able to have it on several bursts instead of staying for too long.
- Giving 5 Seraphin bar per use of Physick (only if target HP is not 100% already), Adloquium (only if target HP is not 100% already too), and Succor (same than the 2 others).
- Excogitation... I don't know, maybe something like providing a 3000 shield on top of the 3000 heal? Because WHM can have Afflatus Solace, healing a total of 7000 HP for free every 10sec (1 Lily). Excogitation could also provide around 15 Faery Gauge (for Seraphin) if its effect is triggered.

Scholar is actually good, it just gets punished for having bad teams and when you're in a solo queue mode, it makes it unreliable. It's too gimicky, but trying to make it a conventional healer is a bad concept for the job and simply homogenizes yet another role.

Scholar is unviable due to the nature of solo queue, Dacien and Taru competed with it fine on the Light ladder when their teams were good quality; which provides the implication that WHM is better overall as a safe pick for solo queue but AST/SCH probs better in LP. Seraphim should get the Phoenix/Bahamut treatment, the AI simply doesn't work well in PvP and it's not exactly cheap to use.

Using Aura Blast for gauge is concern frog.
SCH performs extremely well when low on mana due to the sheer amount of OGCD healing. Besides, it's the same weakness WHM suffers from when using Dia.
No other ability does what Excog does. When SCH OGCD healing is already extremely good, excog just makes this better.
Suffers from same issue as AST, if you have to heal like a WHM, you OOM too easily, but SCH copes with it better than AST does.
Don't compare one ability to what another job has, Lustrate is more comparable to Solace than Excog is if you want to go down that route.

Who have you been talking to, out of curiosity?


If this is about FL tho ye by all means carry on, although the changes you've suggested aren't that good for Feast. Aura blast would be way too strong with that CD, and what's worse is you're only suggesting this because of the purpose you use it for, which is wrong.
Seraphim covered, just give egi treatment lol.
Faerie Gauge, not "Seraphin bar". Also if you're in a situation where you're having to Physick heal constantly on a SCH, the outlook isn't very good. Coincidentially this also applies to PvE.
That excog buff idea is absolutely ludicrous.

To make it short, I was just tired of people laughing at SCH just giving quick statements like "Lol SCH sucks" "no wonder you lost, you had an SCH in your team, how could he thinks he could handle the fight" (not exact real quotes, it's extremely close to that, coming from some top 10 players on Chaos just laughing at how obvious SCH is bad).
So I asked some people to have their opinion on why they say it sucks.
Overall I don't want to give names or channel discord to don't discredit people in the eyes of others, I accept the risk for me, but not for the other ones who didn't want to express their opinion here, and it's just opinions given to me when I asked what was that terrible about them, they were not like stating they were almighty omniscient on the topic (some were top 50 and one only played it when he was still Bronze but still wanted to tell me why he stoped playing it). On top of it, I mixed several people thinkings, also mines, and I don't want anyone to believe one of them said everything I mixed together.

So I'm glad you believe they actually can be good (more made for premades then?), and having your opinion about why they are enough the way they are.
Just in case, I was not talking about FL, I'm mainly interested in The Feast.

For Aura Blast, I'm not saying its main purpose is to provide Faery Gauge (btw, I wrote Faery Gauge sometimes, Seraphic bar another time, dunno why, but I'm aware it's Faery gauge overall), but filling it by 10 per target makes it not something we can ignore at the pace the game goes in Feast making it hard for SCH to have time to attack and fill that bar, it's still a huge part of the skill, even if the Knockback is the primary part of the skill.
(I didn't understand the frog part when you said "Using Aura Blast for Gauge is concern frog").

I didn't mean Excog was specialy comparable to Solace, but SCH has way more oGCD than the others (on top of charges). So as it's an overall kit, it's hard to compare every single skills equally. 3k heal + 3k shield is maybe obviously too high, but I still feel 3k every 45sec looks a bit disappointing.
If I mix all oGCD of WHM on 30sec, we have 3 Afflatus Solace, 2 Tetragram, 1 Assize (+ could be buffed by 20% by Temperance(60sec CD)) --> 7k heal per Solace, 4k per Tetragram, 2k(AoE) per Assize --> 21k + 8k + 2k = 31k total heal (of course, the Solace regen doesn't stack).
Meanwhile, SCH on 30sec has 2 Lustrate, 1 Indomitability and let's say they have 1 Excog. even if the CD is 45 CD (+ could be buffed by Focalization) --> 3k per Lustrate, 1.5k (AoE) per Indom, 3k per Excog. --> 10.5k total heal. (I didn't coun't the Seraphin of course, but it's not something that can be count on a reliable way overall.

I've tested Seraphin directly, it's really disappointing.
Using 50 or 60 Faery gauge : 3 Heals (6000 Heal + 6000 Shield).
Using 70 or 80 Faery gauge : 4 Heals (8000 Heal + 8000 Shield).
Using 90 or 100 Faery gauge : 5 Heals (10000 Heal + 10000 Shield). (we can see the Fairy cast the 6th heal but it doesn't come).

Logically, at 100, we could expect to at least do the double of 50, so 6 heals. And being 22 sec, we could expect even a 7th healing skill because it's every 3sec and 7 x 3sec = 21sec (and it's 22sec duration at 100 Faery gauge used).
On top of it, we can see we waste 10 Faery Gauge at 60, 80 and 100 Faery Gauge used.

Even if I add the 5 Seraphic Veils to the total of "heal in 30sec" from oGCD (it's wrong to call it that way but I hope you get the idea being more like "what healing value oGCD comes back in 30sec"), it makes it being 31k for the WHM and 30.5k for the SCH (and it's way less reliable as the AI of the Fairy is not great and it needs the Faery Gauge to be maxed).

One great thing about the SCH is the shield part of Adloquium and Seraphic Veil counters lifesteal mechanics (Bloodbath and Drain), and can prevent a bit of overheal if used too early. On top of Biolysis lowering healing by 20%, it seems pretty great to lower opponent survivability.
On the other hand, they lack a lot of offensive abilities compared to the 2 others (maybe Seraphin is here to allow them to more use their basic dmg skill to heal better after).

They can be super good, they're just not solo queue friendly, there's a lot of jobs that fall in that bracket. AST is not exactly solo queue friendly either, the safety net is just a lot larger than the one given to SCH; which puts it in a reasonable spot overall. And yeah what I'm saying is blasting for the sake of gauge is bad usage of it. It's a peel and a pseudo interrupt as a priority. Also not only are you counting the hot in solace, but also making the assumption that you are holding 3 lilies. Given how you generally want to maintain your hots for miserys to support burst; this is unlikely unless the other team is really bad at pressuring, and even then you'd probably just burn on raptures for more miseries. Seraphim is overall underwhelming, unfortunately this isn't a problem exclusive to PvP, it's not that great in high-end raiding either. Maybe Melo can expand on Lily management at high level if he sees this, because I've got around 450 games on 3 healers (2x WHM 1x AST) and whilst they're all in plat, doesn't mean I'm doing it right lol.

Also Bloodbath is very rare, there are a very small selection of good players that will take it, I think the only one in Diamond on Light that does is Cyne and he pairs it with Chiten; but generally it's not that good. Drain is also rare for a number of reasons. The primary one being there are a very low amount of casters on EU, and the ones that we do have not all of them take drain; myself included; I prefer Ward because I would rather have the HP pad over an ability that requires me to be at a lower amount of HP to outpotency Manaward defensive (but obviously, it's the better offense/defense additional).

Overall though, Biolysis and OGCD/resourceless healing are probably some of Scholar's main strengths; but as mentioned - it's not solo queue friendly and as a result yeah, I'd accept the vast majority of the time you would gimp your team by playing it.
The reason why Chaos players are memeing on it are the same reason people in other DCs too, the vast majority of people who think they can play it actually can't and the ones that can will struggle if their team isn't very good or needs a slight healer hardcarry to succeed because they are not that good defensively. I'd love to see a couple of play it next tournament (Clash of Light) but think it's unlikely lol. It's a shame the best SCH players don't post here because I'd obviously love insight from those who have laddered on it at a reasonable elo.

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

Also not only are you counting the hot in solace, but also making the assumption that you are holding 3 lilies. Given how you generally want to maintain your hots for miserys to support burst; this is unlikely unless the other team is really bad at pressuring, and even then you'd probably just burn on raptures for more miseries.

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I meant in 30 sec, you regain 3 times Solace as you gain 1 Lily every 10sec. Not needing to hold them at all. But yea, regen doesn't stack of course.

I'd love to also have a Scholar main insight about the topic. I'm wondering if they are more made to premade teams, I mean, for exemple, maybe they combo well with DRK for the other 20% debuff heal and TBN being affected by healing buff (Maybe even combo with Dark missionary for the multiplicative bonus on heal). And their Focalization is helping a lot other chars having healing abilities. So if you have a DNC or an RDM instead of BLM/SMN(/MCH/BRD), it might be better for the overall value Focalization can provide.
Maybe GNB Bow shock combo with Aura Blast is awesome as it inflicts Heavy 50% 5sec then you split them all easily while giving them a hard time to come back if you know they used their dash already. Anyway, something that need people playing together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fannah

I meant in 30 sec, you regain 3 times Solace as you gain 1 Lily every 10sec. Not needing to hold them at all. But yea, regen doesn't stack of course.

I'd love to also have a Scholar main insight about the topic. I'm wondering if they are more made to premade teams, I mean, for exemple, maybe they combo well with DRK for the other 20% debuff heal and TBN being affected by healing buff (Maybe even combo with Dark missionary for the multiplicative bonus on heal). And their Focalization is helping a lot other chars having healing abilities. So if you have a DNC or an RDM instead of BLM/SMN(/MCH/BRD), it might be better for the overall value Focalization can provide.
Maybe GNB Bow shock combo with Aura Blast is awesome as it inflicts Heavy 50% 5sec then you split them all easily while giving them a hard time to come back if you know they used their dash already. Anyway, something that need people playing together.

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Focalization also buffs Medical Kit btw.

And you'd want a DRK with SCH, not a GNB. Maybe get away with a Warrior too.

Reroll geomancer