How in the *seven hells* did Martyn learn these spells? [BLU Lv.50~60 SPOILERS]

While I do understand him learning a number of blue magic spells during his travels, I simply can't accept him learning the Primal-related ones (without serious injuries or even tempering).

Especially Quasar, I mean...what?
Sophia was imprisoned in Azys Lla for millennia (only being released for her final defeat), how did he learn Quasar from her, exactly?

It simply doesn't make any sense...

Well, as the very Job itself he basically made up out of whole cloth (remember the whole reason the WoL even became a BLU in the first place was because the Limsan authorities believed Martyn to be nothing but a con artist hawking fake Soul Crystals to unsuspecting adventurers, and faced with arrest, you basically became his alibi and unwitting stooge), maybe that's the same with the spells? That is, he merely makes them up himself out of thin air simply based on imagination and snippets of info from others, which isn't too different to how the WoL is doing it too (I imagine Yoshi-P's alter-ego probably is a good (bad?) source of such stories and, well, we all know the Minstrel likes to make... 'creative embellishments' with his retellings of our adventures...).

I guess the best way of looking at it is simply don't think too much about it as always - like with how retainers manage to bring back old raid items/gear (like White Raven Fragments), a healthy amount of willing suspension of disbelief is needed here. ;)

Totems passed down since ancient times? Perhaps Primal moves aren't even that unique to their Primals, just the only time we encounter such moves is vs those Primals? Could you, for example, learn Eruption by watching a volcanic eruption, or does it have to come from Ifrit? Heck, I wonder if you could learn something like Quasar from a Sophia-Egi, or something like the Ultima Warrior, or even Ultima Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

Sophia was imprisoned in Azys Lla for millennia (only being released for her final defeat), how did he learn Quasar from her, exactly?

It simply doesn't make any sense...

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I don't see any problems about this. I mean, there IS lore about it:

"A new tomestone discovered by Unukalhai contains records of ancient battles with Sophia─specialized data which will enable Azys Lla's miraculous reality augmentation technologies to generate a simulacrum of the Goddess at the height of her power. Have you the strength to overcome this challenge, as the champions of Allag once did? Enter the combat simulation, and test the limits of your might! "

He probably did just the same thing we did: He played the video game and learned the spell there.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I don't see any problems about this. I mean, there IS lore about it:

"A new tomestone discovered by Unukalhai contains records of ancient battles with Sophia─specialized data which will enable Azys Lla's miraculous reality augmentation technologies to generate a simulacrum of the Goddess at the height of her power. Have you the strength to overcome this challenge, as the champions of Allag once did? Enter the combat simulation, and test the limits of your might! "

He probably did just the same thing we did: He played the video game and learned the spell there.

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With the difficulty level turned waaaaaay down.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Totems passed down since ancient times? Perhaps Primal moves aren't even that unique to their Primals, just the only time we encounter such moves is vs those Primals? Could you, for example, learn Eruption by watching a volcanic eruption, or does it have to come from Ifrit? Heck, I wonder if you could learn something like Quasar from a Sophia-Egi, or something like the Ultima Warrior, or even Ultima Weapon.

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You bring an interesting point about alternate ways of learning those spells, but that still wouldn't explain how he'd be able to "mimic" the weapons/effects associated to them (like say, Ramuh's staff or Sophia's ribbons/orbs).

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I don't see any problems about this. I mean, there IS lore about it:

"A new tomestone discovered by Unukalhai contains records of ancient battles with Sophia─specialized data which will enable Azys Lla's miraculous reality augmentation technologies to generate a simulacrum of the Goddess at the height of her power. Have you the strength to overcome this challenge, as the champions of Allag once did? Enter the combat simulation, and test the limits of your might! "

He probably did just the same thing we did: He played the video game and learned the spell there.

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AFAIK, only the WoL had access to that particular tomestone.
And even if that simply unlocked that simulacrum for "everyone" in the facility, it'd be too far-fetched of him to travel all the way up to Azys Lla and somehow managed to come across and defeat her for that spell.

This is sidestepping another key point: where do WE learn some of these spells? Specifically, Glass Dance, though there may be others I'm missing. The only place to learn Glass Dance is Shiva Ex - and Shiva Ex is just a story being told by the Wandering Minstrel. It never really happened. There's not even a computer simulation to use as an excuse. Shiva Normal never used the ability at all.

Best to check your brain at the door and just enjoy the ride. XD

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is sidestepping another key point: where do WE learn some of these spells? Specifically, Glass Dance, though there may be others I'm missing. The only place to learn Glass Dance is Shiva Ex - and Shiva Ex is just a story being told by the Wandering Minstrel. It never really happened.

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Actually... Shiva EX happened, all the ARR EX Trials had a "story" with Urianger leading the way. As far as I'm aware, the Wandering Minstrel didn't start fabricating content until Heavensward, and even then that was just for Thordan and Nidhogg if memory serves, Ravana and Bismarck were resummoned and the Triad has their own plot device for the EX versions.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

You bring an interesting point about alternate ways of learning those spells, but that still wouldn't explain how he'd be able to "mimic" the weapons/effects associated to them (like say, Ramuh's staff or Sophia's ribbons/orbs).

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I'm leaning towards the idea of Concepts presented to us in Amaurot, with something like the short story with Hades and an immortal fire bird really hammering the point home. Basically, the "concept" behind the spells (and potentially Primals, see: Phoenix) are ancient, and what we see with Primals like Ramuh and Sophia is the modern expression of them, the twisted shades of what once was, as Ascians might put it. That would mean there is potential for the same concepts to be expressed else where, by other means. A regular old enemy in the New World could simply draw on the same concepts as Sophia and Quasar, that would allow Blue Mages over there to have learned it that way. Obviously the whole "concepts" idea was just an in-universe way to explain reskins, but it works. Why are Living Liquid, Liquid Flame and Salt and Light all basically the same? Because they come from the same ancient concept. Same for Sophia and some as-yet unseen enemy in the New World.

Perhaps Martyn got a soulstone that wasn't empty unlike the ones we got, and one of the previous owners of it had fought sophia in the distant past

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Actually... Shiva EX happened, all the ARR EX Trials had a "story" with Urianger leading the way. As far as I'm aware, the Wandering Minstrel didn't start fabricating content until Heavensward, and even then that was just for Thordan and Nidhogg if memory serves, Ravana and Bismarck were resummoned and the Triad has their own plot device for the EX versions.

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Correct. The first Minstrel's Ballad was Ultima's Bane, then the Second Coil of Bahamut, Thordan's Reign and Nidhogg's Rage. ARR EX-fights are all 'real', a new incarnation summoned to be stronger than the last.

Back to Martyn: Well, he is the original Blue Mage and more familiar with the art of blue magic than we are. Maybe it's enough for him to just see or know about the attack to mimic the spell and he doesn't need to actually beat the Primal for it.