Is it worth using aoe skills during LL in TEA? (DRK)

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12-10-2019, 02:15 PM
VenKitsune

Is it worth using aoe skills during LL in TEA? (DRK)

Or other parts of the fight that feature two targets, for that matter?

I know for some of the tanks it is - PLD, WAR (Not Decimate or CC) and GNB i imagine do, just from some top of my head maths, incase anyone clicking on this was wondering, but feel free to prove me wrong....

But what about DRK? Obviously its a gain to use Flood (300 pot per target, as opposed to 500 on one), and a loss to use quietus (210 per target...vs bs being 600 on one, no contest)...But what about Unleash and stalwart soul? Its the same blood gauge increase as souleater, the same MP gain as SS, all rolled in to two GCDs...Buuuut those two skills are spells, they scale with spell speed and not skill speed and so i dont imagine you'd want to do it during BW windows, as you'd only get 4 instead of 5 attacks in...And it sounds like it'd really screw with some timings.

On paper it seems to be worth it but...Well, i suppose i just needed a second opinion, perhaps from those who are doing or have done the ultimate, and while you're at it, any general advice for post LL as DRK would be useful too!
12-11-2019, 12:03 AM
DRKoftheAzure

FF14 has an ability que in place which is like a 0.5 second que I believe but you can get 5 Blood Weapon ticks in if you time the button presses just right, which is a little over 3/4ths, sometimes a little more, of the GCD being filled if using DRK Spells, so once you cast Unleash and get the confirm, pop Blood Weapon once GCD is 100% instead of just queing Stalwart Soul after weaving in Blood Weapon because it might be more latency based but then again I recommend not playing DRK until it gets fixed to the point where I can recommend playing, and instead suggest playing PLD as a better magic tank alternative, or GNB as a the better DPS tank alternative.
12-11-2019, 12:13 PM
BarretOblivion

To answer the question: Yes. Very much so. Its actually a potency gain after three GCDs to AoE two targets via unleash/soul on top of faster MP and blood generation leading to more spills and flood. Of all the tanks, DRK gains the most from AoEing two targets. I didn't believe it but its very much true. The only tank that should not be AoEing is PLD except for during Requiscat where they holy circle over spirit.
12-11-2019, 08:24 PM
ArianeEwah

I've played around a bit with aoe on DRK, too, and I can tell you my rotation at least.

Normal opener with 2 SE combos and Delirium (BS spam), 1 SE combo + BS for pulling boss into corner, 1 aoe combo, 1 SE combo for pulling boss to center, then aoe again. Your Stalwart Soul should finish as BW becomes ready again, so use 1 SE combo (90 Gauge), and finsih with 2 BS. Aoe from here.

Aoe combo as DRK is a gain on 2+ targets, just as BarretOblivion said. Tho, it's not a significant gain. It can help keeping LL's and LH's HP pools balanced until you split them and go for the kill/enrage, yet the impact is not huge. You also have to watch out for the dolls, you mustn't aoe if they could die from it, but that depends on your timing and positioning.
The mana gain is nice, and can help you fill your MP if you have a bad mana tick and need it for TBN. You might be able to gain 1 additional Flood during the fight with LL over single target, so don't expect anything more than that.

As for PLD, their physical combo on 2 targets is still single target. Its physical aoe combo has 340 pot/GCD, while its ST combo is somewhat around 450 pot/GCD (dot so stronk). Holy circle is a gain on 2+.

GNB gain from aoe is huge. On 2 targets it's 400 pot/GCD to 300 pot/GCD on single target, faster cartridge gain, and cartridge aoe spender (Fated Circle) beats Burst Strike, too. Tho Gnashing Fang combo still beats aoe even on 3 targets (830 pot/GCD).

WAR is aoe+FC/IR all day.
12-12-2019, 01:47 AM
AleXwern

BW with AoE is super tight but possible. I'll take the AoE spam anyway because, on paper and other buffs excluded, it's flat gain and you'll get 10BG and 300 MP per GCD instead of 20/3BG and 200MP. If you are not confident in your timing/ping then you can just do 5 single target GCDs. It's not that big loss.
12-12-2019, 03:56 AM
Allooutrick

What's LL TEA? Is that some sort of rapper?
12-12-2019, 05:01 AM
shao32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allooutrick

What's LL TEA? Is that some sort of rapper?

A mechanic on The Epic of Alexander (ultimate) the hardest raid of the moment.
12-12-2019, 12:48 PM
VenKitsune

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

FF14 has an ability que in place which is like a 0.5 second que I believe but you can get 5 Blood Weapon ticks in if you time the button presses just right, which is a little over 3/4ths, sometimes a little more, of the GCD being filled if using DRK Spells, so once you cast Unleash and get the confirm, pop Blood Weapon once GCD is 100% instead of just queing Stalwart Soul after weaving in Blood Weapon because it might be more latency based but then again I recommend not playing DRK until it gets fixed to the point where I can recommend playing, and instead suggest playing PLD as a better magic tank alternative, or GNB as a the better DPS tank alternative.

I really dont think that's the case. Right now, to fit all 5 GCDs in to BW windows comfortably with 20~ ping, you need about 2.38 GCD. However, DRK aoes are spells, and so locked at 2.5 GCD so its only possible with a 0ms ping, theoretically.

And well...PLD, i do not personally think will outweigh DRK in Ultimate, atleast during prog. TBN is huge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

To answer the question: Yes. Very much so. Its actually a potency gain after three GCDs to AoE two targets via unleash/soul on top of faster MP and blood generation leading to more spills and flood. Of all the tanks, DRK gains the most from AoEing two targets. I didn't believe it but its very much true. The only tank that should not be AoEing is PLD except for during Requiscat where they holy circle over spirit.

Thanks for answering.

I currently use Flood over Edge on two targets, its basically a free 100 potency gain afterall.
Still, seems weird...With the other tanks i'd have no trouble using AOE, but with DRK, with Unleash and soul being locked to spell speed, as they're spells, it feels super clunky :l
Guess i gotta try and figure out a new rotation to atleast make some use out of it, heh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

I've played around a bit with aoe on DRK, too, and I can tell you my rotation at least.

Normal opener with 2 SE combos and Delirium (BS spam), 1 SE combo + BS for pulling boss into corner, 1 aoe combo, 1 SE combo for pulling boss to center, then aoe again. Your Stalwart Soul should finish as BW becomes ready again, so use 1 SE combo (90 Gauge), and finsih with 2 BS. Aoe from here.

Aoe combo as DRK is a gain on 2+ targets, just as BarretOblivion said. Tho, it's not a significant gain. It can help keeping LL's and LH's HP pools balanced until you split them and go for the kill/enrage, yet the impact is not huge. You also have to watch out for the dolls, you mustn't aoe if they could die from it, but that depends on your timing and positioning.
The mana gain is nice, and can help you fill your MP if you have a bad mana tick and need it for TBN. You might be able to gain 1 additional Flood during the fight with LL over single target, so don't expect anything more than that.

As for PLD, their physical combo on 2 targets is still single target. Its physical aoe combo has 340 pot/GCD, while its ST combo is somewhat around 450 pot/GCD (dot so stronk). Holy circle is a gain on 2+.

GNB gain from aoe is huge. On 2 targets it's 400 pot/GCD to 300 pot/GCD on single target, faster cartridge gain, and cartridge aoe spender (Fated Circle) beats Burst Strike, too. Tho Gnashing Fang combo still beats aoe even on 3 targets (830 pot/GCD).

WAR is aoe+FC/IR all day.

Hmm i hadn't even considered it might lead to an extra flood...Thanks, will give it some more experimentation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AleXwern

BW with AoE is super tight but possible. I'll take the AoE spam anyway because, on paper and other buffs excluded, it's flat gain and you'll get 10BG and 300 MP per GCD instead of 20/3BG and 200MP. If you are not confident in your timing/ping then you can just do 5 single target GCDs. It's not that big loss.

Is it really possible? BW lasts for 10 seconds, and each spell GCD is 2.5 seconds...So wouldn't you need to be literally sitting right next to the servers, or playing ON said servers to get that to be possible? Otherwise, you'd have to delay your GCD by a few fractions of a second just to make sure, which i imagine would kinda balance out the gain?
Good shout though, i suppose there is no harm in doing aoe's when BW is not up...I usually end up holding on to my GCDs for a second or two anway while moving the boss in to the middle after the dolls...So it certainly wont be a loss there!