Mr. Yoshida, the Endgame Crafting System should become more Skill Based:

I have seen a lot of people on a certain popular thread complain that Endgame crafting is too easy, and encourages lazy behavior. Let me go over what “lazy behavior” means exactly.

Spamming a macro retrieved from the internet, while simultaneously watching Netflix, hardly paying attention to a craft. Not bothering to understand a craft, even after the 5.1 overhaul happened, which in theory, should make crafting more easier to understand!

Level 1 - 79 recipes should be easy. But anything endgame should NOT be this easy, at all. I hardly find it fun anymore to craft!

After seeing many people still ask for macros in the Balance Discord and in the game even, it is clear that there are many people who are not interested in learning how endgame crafting works. They are only interested in the final result. Not what it took to get the result!

I do not like RNG in crafting, and I hope it is not added in 5.2, because as some of you may know, there was an interview recently where Mr. Yoshida started he wants people to stop using macros, and he will add “procs”. Adding RNG will not make people happy, what will, is focusing on a crafting revamp that makes Endgame skill based. If RNG is all Mr. Yoshida can do for the players that want challenges, that is fine. But a skill overhaul would be much more preferable!

If you would like Endgame crafting to be skill based in a future expansion rather than depend on RNG for a challenge, please support this thread and it may happen. The “casual and hardcore” popular thread motivated me to make this, because it’s much too easy..

What's the difference between crafting something because you're 'good' and because you used a macro. Does the item have better durability? Are the stats better? Does it sell for more? Probably not, so who cares.

Edit: You know what, just go here ———> http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dcore-crafters..

Aren't you the exact same person that made the other thread?

Define what is "skill based" other than rng and stat (aka. Overmeld)?

I use macros because it saves my hands from lots of unnecessary physical stress. Clicking a mouse too often can actually harm your hands. I don't always look them up. I make my own sometimes and yes I have searched for aid online before and even spoken with other crafters about what I could do to better myself. Not all of us "just want hand outs."

Also, why do you care so much if somebody chooses to macro? It doesnt effect you in any way. Because its easier for them to make stuff? What if theyre dumb and they still find copying a macro to be just as difficult for them as manual crafting is to you? What if they are smarter than you and find good rotations at a much faster rate than you? Honestly, It will never be truly equal in terms of difficulty.

If you want harder content. Sure, why not? Im all for it, but dont punish others because you want to play differently. That is just plain silly.

Finally, RNG is not in any way a form of "difficuly." Its more about luck. You do something "optimal" and even if you do it correctly RNG may let you fail anyways. On the other hand it may not. Theres no additional challenge by adding in RNG. If you want real challenge, i suggest you find it somewhere else. Crafting has never been difficult in any game i have ever played. You gear up, collect materials, study the mechanics long enough to understand them and finally, do what you have learned to create something. Once you have done that, keep playing with it all until you know the easiest way possible. Because of your hardwork up until this point, you now know so much that it isnt "hard" anymore. And you can consistantly craft things while watching netflix. It has been this way in every single game ive played. In fact, FFXIV has some of the most intricate crafting ive experienced. The only possible way i can think of to make it hard, is maybe mini games. Imagine being a black smith and you have to keep a gauge filled for a bit by pressing the buttons it prompts you to press as fast as you can as a way of "keeping your fire hot enough" and if you do it too slow, the fire gets colder. Imagine having to actually time your actions, cook something too long and its burned. Not long enough? Its still raw! Fishing could still utilize bait types but also a mini game to "reel" in the fish without snapping your line. I would much rather see something like this personally.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

Define what is "skill based" other than rng and stat (aka. Overmeld)?

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I would even hesitate to call RNG skill based. It's more about luck than anything. The only skill involved is deciding whether or not to use Precise Touch, Intensive Synthesis or Tricks of the Trade when they proc. If you go a while craft without getting a good or excellent, you could easily be screwed by something outside of your control due to random chance, not because you did something wrong.

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Originally Posted by PlsNoBully

Aren't you the exact same person that made the other thread?

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I had the same feeling. Generic Hyur face, the name....the wording of "a certain popular thread"...just confused as to why they'd do this xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlsNoBully

Aren't you the exact same person that made the other thread?

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Nah, they're not. Similar characters and such but I know them, they're not. ^_^

I am not sure a "skill based" crafting system is possible in a video game. Skill implies being exceptionally proficient at something not necessarily easy to do, but there is no proficiency level in a video game. You either are capable of doing something or you aren't. And if you are capable, you then need to figure out how to do that something.

In this age of information at the touch of your fingertips, once one person figures something out and shares that knowledge, the rest of the world basically has access to it too. It would be one thing if you could hoard your discoveries and tricks and keep them to yourself, but in a video game system, barring RNG, once a formula is solved and shared... that's it, it's solved for everyone. Tools like the optimizer websites remove the risk of trial and error to figure out those formulas. There is no "skill" to base the system around. It's basically math. And once solved and shared, that math is available to anyone who takes the time to look for it.

When people say skill in crafting I think of real world things like hand/eye coordination, exceptionally steady hands, exceptional agility or flexibility of the limbs, refined instincts. I'm not sure how such innately physical attributes could be required for video game crafting, outside of turning crafting into a first person shooter minigame which I would find abhorrent.

As far as I can see there is no such thing as "skill based" crafting in FFXIV and there never was. There is only:

"RnG/Persistence based crafting" where rng always holds sway and you can never guarantee your results, leading to only those willing to risk multiple failures for a few successes as the top of the food chain. This sort of system leads to potentially only a few big fish running the economy and likely higher prices for buyers.

and

"Gear/Information based" crafting which is what I think we have now, where as long as you have the right gear/stats and take the time to learn the ins and outs of how the system works, use the tools at hand, and keep up to date with various forum resources, you're going to excel at crafting, leading to anyone who takes the time being able to take part in the system at the highest levels. This leads to far more competition in the crafting market with many suppliers and thus lower prices for buyers.

"Skill" doesn't really play a part in either. And I personally prefer more competition among sellers than only a few big wigs (who often collude with each other to keep prices high) running the market.