As the title asks.
As I understand it, their anger was pretty well contained and directed to Ishgard alone. But could I be missing something that was explained somewhere?
After all, the settlement was considered friendly to Eorzea, and the Eorzean Alliance was providing aid to Ishgard.
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11-04-2019, 02:09 AMFloortankWhy did the Dravanian Horde tolerate the Sharlayan settlement in the Hinterlands?
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11-04-2019, 02:41 AMCilia
The Sharlayans have never been particularly "friendly" with anyone as far as we are aware; they retain a neutral stance on all matters and will never lift a finger to actually influence the course of history, remaining passive observers even in the face of such things as Calamities. People like Louisoix and the former Circle of Knowing (now members of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, along with the former Path of the Twelve members) are iconoclasts among Sharlayans.
That said dragons aren't concerned with mortal politics, but the Hinterlands don't seem to have a significant Dravanian presence - or one at all, for that matter, so it seems to be outside of their territory.
Following your line of logic the Dravanian Horde would have to be attacking the entirety of Eorzea from the formation of the Alliance until Ishgard adopted Thordan VII's isolationist policies.
Nidhogg's goal was to make the Ishgardians suffer; as long as someone did not have the blood of Ratatoskr flowing in their veins, he probably did not care what they did as long as they were not a direct obstruction to his vengeance. -
11-04-2019, 07:51 PMFloortankWhat line of logic? The Gridanians send you to help out the Coerthans in Ishgard in multiple different parts of ARR, particularly in the Dragoon quests. That's not my logic, that's what I've observed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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11-04-2019, 08:00 PMMrThinkerTo be more specific, Guildmaster Ywain sends you to help out his old friend Alberic (a friendship from before Ishgard's isolation), so that isn't so much Gridania helping Coerthas than it is 2 individuals with a friendly relationship doing favours for one another. All the other times we deal with Ishgard in 2.x it is more "the Scions treating with Ishgard on behalf of the Alliance" and is mostly handled by Alphinaud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
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11-04-2019, 08:17 PMFloortankThat's not entirely accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrThinker
Ywain and Alberic are friends, but Ywain outlines the mission to you in terms of Gridania's obligations to Ishgard and vice versa.
From "Eyes of the Dragon":
Ywain: As you may already know, due to her ongoing conflict with the dragons, Ishgard has kept her gates closed to outsiders for some time. The occasional dragoon on patrol duty is about all folk see these days.
Ywain: In spite of her self-imposed isolation, however, the Holy See has never failed to honor her obligations to her allies. It is only fitting that we answer the call and lend what assistance we can. To this end, we offered to dispatch a contingent of Wood Wailers with all haste—but were politely informed that they would not be welcome, much to our initial confusion.
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The "allies" here are the city-states, and the "we" here is Gridania. -
11-04-2019, 08:44 PMMrThinkerTrue, I did not remember the specifics in this case, and thinking about it the botanists questline also contains something similar.... but basically what I was trying to point out is that the Horde wanted to torment "Ishgard" and "Ishgard" alone without any care for the other colonies of man, and if they (the Horde) were gonna consider the Alliance's aid to Ishgard as a true threat they would have already attacked them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
Going back to the original topic I can understand why you ask the question, especially when the original conflict between man and dragon that Shiva ended was because of territorial disputes and that Nidhogg was said to have a great disdain for man, but as you point out yourself, this hatred is concentrated solely at the descendants of Ratatoskr's murderers, and the lack of dragons in the Hinterlands does indeed seem to point to the idea that it exists outside of the Dravanian's natural territory. -
11-05-2019, 12:19 PMCilia"If [X] is aiding Ishgard, [X] is my enemy."Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
Which is not a line of logic the Dravanian Horde apparently followed; the logic was "Ishgard was founded by those who carry the blood of Ratatoskr, therefore Ishgard must suffer." Anything that got in the way was just collateral damage. Nidhogg had no personal enmity against us; he even struggles to remember us before the Final Steps of Faith, and only seems to attack us because we're literally the last thing between him and razing Ishgard.
Before he decided to end it decisively, allowing others to aid Ishgard might actually have been something Nidhogg wanted; by building their hopes up higher, they'd suffer and despair more when he came calling. -
11-05-2019, 12:29 PMArdoxI think you put too much weight on a 2.0 job-quest dialogue: Heavensward's story was far from being ironed out so it's not impossible the dialogue doesn't fit entirely the lore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Floortank
For example, can we say the Holy See always honored her obligations?: During the events leading to the Steps of Faith's battle before 3.0, the Alliance leader's make a comment on how the Isgardians didn't help them to defend Eorzea at Cartenau.
Also, if memory serves right, that was a secret mission (so they could keep Estinien stealing the Eye a secret.
The overall narrative is the Ishardian was now fighting alone against the Dravanians, so it makes attacking the Sharlayan pointless.
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Now that I think about it: the Sharlayan moved back to their island prior to the Battle of Silvertear Skies. It doesn't change the oddities in the dialogues though..