I know how to make living dead better while still retaining it's flavor.

Make walking dead status also convert damage you take into healing instead, this way it's easier to get back to 100% without eating all the healers resources but they would still probably need to heal you for some hp. Not only is this flavor approriate (you turn into a zombie kind of status where damage heals you) but it makes the ability much better and gives it unique interaction with some tankbusters. For example during triple titan tankbuster if you survive the first hit, the second would turn you to walking dead and third would heal you up, making it probably the best immunity cd for that fight while still requiring some healing in other fights. Cooldown could be adjusted appropriately if needed.

This very idea has been discussed ever since the job was released over 4 years ago - Its not a new idea, and it doesn't look like SE want to implement it. With good reason as well might i add.
Converting damage you take in to healing requires calculations on the server side - these take time, even if its only a micro second. Factor in ping...and well, a hit that would normally oneshot you would...Still oneshot you, because the server would declare you dead mere nanoseconds before realising you should of been healed, by which point its too late to correct.


It looks like SE doesn't want to change Tank super's at all, considering the only one that's ever been changed is Holmgang.

I don't think the suggestion is to take damage and heal at the same time (i.e. dreadspikes).

We're talking about something in-between Holmgang and Hallowed Ground. Drop down to 1 HP with Living Dead, and Walking Dead triggers. You're now invulnerable for the next 10 seconds, but can't be healed directly. Instead, any damage that you would have taken (and/or perhaps dealt) counts as healing. You'd have to be fairly selective in terms of when you use it. In places where there's a tankbuster followed by little to no outgoing damage (because of AoEs, etc.) or an untargetable boss, you'd potentially run the risk of sitting at 1 HP while being unable to be healed. But it would still be a significant improvement on the present ability. And it would actually give Living Dead a reason to be on a longer recast than Holmgang.

I suspect that the devs are evading a discussion on the subject because they don't know how to balance/rework the invulns. You could make an argument for removing them altogether.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I suspect that the devs are evading a discussion on the subject because they don't know how to balance/rework the invulns. You could make an argument for removing them altogether.

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The more I think about it, the more I want them to be removed. These tools are too powerful and essentially make tank busters trivial. You either have all your CDs or your invuln, everything is way too easy to survive because of that. Mitigating TBs would be much more interesting without these (Like E4S Stonecrusher with two tank swaps in a row for example, completely trivialized right now with invulns). If they want to keep it as an "oh shit" button then instead of removing them they could also make TBs go through them just like some mechanic damage or boss enrage damage do. That way they'd only be used in case of extreme emergency like a healer dying or something like that, instead of being used as a cheese. Either that or change encounter design and make TBs much much more frequent so that cheesing one with invuln wouldn't be so impactful over the course of an entire fight.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

The more I think about it, the more I want them to be removed. These tools are too powerful and essentially make tank busters trivial. You either have all your CDs or your invuln, everything is way too easy to survive because of that. Mitigating TBs would be much more interesting without these (Like E4S Stonecrusher with two tank swaps in a row for example, completely trivialized right now with invulns). If they want to keep it as an "oh shit" button then instead of removing them they could also make TBs go through them just like some mechanic damage or boss enrage damage do. That way they'd only be used in case of extreme emergency like a healer dying or something like that, instead of being used as a cheese. Either that or change encounter design and make TBs much much more frequent so that cheesing one with invuln wouldn't be so impactful over the course of an entire fight.

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Easiest solution would just be making tankbusters more frequent, I have no idea why they are not. In E4S there are 3 TB's

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Easiest solution would just be making tankbusters more frequent, I have no idea why they are not. In E4S there are 3 TB's

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Actually there are 3 stonecrushers but 10 busters in total. Every blue pushback puddle is also a buster and there is three shared busters and faultline, in his car form when he charges the tank.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Actually there are 3 stonecrushers but 10 busters in total. Every blue pushback puddle is also a buster and there is three shared busters and faultline, in his car form when he charges the tank.

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meh I guess it depends what you count as buster, the only ability that actually gives invuln and requires more than just mitigation is stonecrusher, I guess you can say the earthen anguishes and megaliths are too but faultline doesn't even hit that hard. The point is the only ability that would require some more intricate tank gameplay (double tankswap) is made completely irrelevant by immunities, they should have added more of those, they must have known that people are never gonna do that mechanic if they can just immunity it.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

meh I guess it depends what you count as buster, the only ability that actually gives invuln and requires more than just mitigation is stonecrusher, I guess you can say the earthen anguishes and megaliths are too but faultline doesn't even hit that hard. The point is the only ability that would require some more intricate tank gameplay (double tankswap) is made completely irrelevant by immunities, they should have added more of those, they must have known that people are never gonna do that mechanic if they can just immunity it.

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doesn't hit that hard if you adhere to the prox mechanic of faultline, but some groups actually tank invuln up close, and handle the second stonecrusher properly. As for busters, they're the heavy damage that requires you to pop cooldowns otherwise your dead casted or uncasted.

The problem with this idea is that you effectively nerf the 'invuln' part of walking dead.

In the case that Walking dead can block a ton of super high damaging hits normally, you'd die almost instantly into the 'invuln' section.

For example, Ahk Morn in Ultimate. Living Dead can currently take all 5-6 ahk morn blasts in a row due to its duration, but if you make it so that subsequent hits heal, you'd reduce it to only being able to take 2. (get killed by first hit -> get healed -> die to third)

Or any buster that inflicts a vuln then receives auto attacks after. A DRK can hold the boss for an extra 2-3 autos after a buster that would kill them, whereas you'd nerf that ability and require basically an instant swap due to the first vuln'd auto immediately dispelling walking dead. All I think walking dead needs is a global +50-100% to healing received on its duration to help solo healers/panic restores when Bene isn't available. LD is still one of, if not the strongest Immunity in a controlled setting since you can pre-pop it and still get the full 10s immunity due to it being divided into two parts, whereas Hallowed/Bolide/Holm need to be timed.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

I guess you can say the earthen anguishes and megaliths are too.

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They both are, without CDs they're guaranteed to bust pretty much any tank. Tank busters don't always have to have a vuln, they just have to do enough damage to more often than not one-shot a tank who's not mitigating properly.
(Flatten from Bahamut doesn't inflict a vuln, but with no mitigation you're eating a whole cup serving of insta-death, for example.)

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

The problem with this idea is that you effectively nerf the 'invuln' part of walking dead.

In the case that Walking dead can block a ton of super high damaging hits normally, you'd die almost instantly into the 'invuln' section.

For example, Ahk Morn in Ultimate. Living Dead can currently take all 5-6 ahk morn blasts in a row due to its duration, but if you make it so that subsequent hits heal, you'd reduce it to only being able to take 2. (get killed by first hit -> get healed -> die to third)

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You can't really say it's a nerf, in some cases yes, it would perform better now but there are other cases where it would perform better after my proposal. And in those cases now where it performs better it's still a massive black hole for resources, yeah you can bene it, but that's precisely my point, you have to save your bene for it, otherwise it's a pain in the ass to heal and even bigger resource waster. We are not trying to make it perfect here, just better and getting rid of the huge resource wasting component. I have a drk in my static, you know what I don't particularly like? Having to save bene for ld every fight we decide to use it, if I do accidentally use it for some other fuck up then my god me and my co-healer have to waste so much stuff on it.