Ninja Changes: Some suggestions

I normally don't post here, but what they're deciding to do with ninja is actually pretty infuriating. For context I'm a ninja main and have been since a realm reborn. Now with that out of the way, let's talk.

Right now Ninja is in the same position that Stormblood Dark Knight was. It's incredibly high skill cap but not very rewarding. That's not to say the job is bad, it's just not worth playing in terms of how complex/difficult it is.

TCJ needs to change. Innocence and Titan (New) are a prime example of why it needs to change. This is one of the most mobile jobs in the game. We have fleet of foot. We get not one, but two uses of Shukuchi. We can move during literally any other skill. The amount of time you have to sit there for it to fully go off is completely unnecessary and beyond unreasonable. If you have during the cast, you lose the skill. If you get knocked back, you lose the skill. There are two possible suggestions I can give here. The first is pretty obvious but the dev team seems extremely adamant against this one: Let us move during TCJ. That's it.

The second and less obvious one but more preferable: Let us skip the Ninjutsu key. This will still make us be forced to sit there, but for a far more reasonable amount of time. This won't even effect the combination as we just hit 3 mudras and set them off as we use them anyways. This is also a slight dps gain.

Secondly, let's talk about Meisui. This skill is just.. not good. Unless you use TCJ to cast it, you're actually losing out on potency. Not only that, it's just mug without a potency and an additional requirement. Firstly you could: Give all 80 ninki gain to mug and change Meisui's ability. There's no reason to have to abilities that do essentially the same thing and there's no reason you should have to question whether or not an ability is worth using and the answer should also never be "barely". Make Meisui buff your next Suiton with an obvious potency gain and get rid of the requirement of having to have Suiton up. This lets us have options of TCJ instead of being forced to use it on Meisui whenever it's up. It's not interesting gameplay.

The second and more preferable option is: Don't make Mesui dispel suiton. Make it a requirement that it's up, but don't make it eat the skill. It's self explanatory. Needing to cast Suiton to use this skill is what makes it bad. If we remove the need to cast it twice, it fixes the dilemma. This is probably the more preferable option. This way it can keep itself aligned with trick attack.

Basically: Potency buffs aren't necessarily needed. Just move some stuff around with the skills and we'll have innate buffs and the job will feel more rewarding to play.


I'm not even going to get into ping and how badly it affects this job. I pretty much just want to address these two skills. Other than that I'm definitely happy with Ninja this expansion, even if we're not in a spot where we want to be.

Honestly Meisui was a great opportunity to add in a unique, utility or supporty based effect that fell flat. With enhanced ninki, we already get 8 per GCD. That with mug means I'm using ninki more often than I've ever had to before. Comparing this to Monk's chakra based abilities, we use it far more often. I don't think a second source of ninki gain is useful. I like your change to TCJ, though. "Ten(fuma), Chi(Raiton), Jin(Suiton)", it would cut out some unnecessary button mashing and I can't tell you how often I've screwed it up cause of input lag.

To me the potency is a BIG deal, and here's why. Before, we had dripping blades. This meant our Aeolian edge of 360 potency (after trait), was akin to 435 potency. right now it is 420 potency. ten less than our SB counterpart. This isn't even calculating the slash debuff, which put it to an effective 475 potency. We lost 50 potency on Aeolian edge, and it's across the board with this, only being partially made up with Gust slash going to 300 pot. Bhavakacra got a 100 potency nerf. Assassinate was nerfed from the media tour by 60 potency. And all of this is because it has Trick attack.

The biggest, most glaring issues with ninja, right now. Are trick attack, and meisui being a dead ability. Too much of ninja's power allocation go into that one ability (the former). They don't even have any other utility in their kit. They could have added the healing ninjutsu Yugiri sometimes uses. They could have added a temporary, Area wide Futon effect, they could have extended shade shift to the party. There are so many things they could have been given if they were truly meant to be this melee support dps. But they didn't.

Change trick attack to be: "Increases the amount of damage the target takes from the user by 25%, effect duration 15s" It doesn't feel like a support dps with one ability.

Here's what I would change about NIN:

Remove the Ninki requirement for Bunshin. This'll help with aligning it with Trick Attack, and allow us to use Bhavackarwhateverit'scalled a few extra times, increasing our overall dps.

Halve Ninki generation and consumption--basically, with every attack you'll generate 3 (4 with Shukiho II) Ninki per attack, Meisui and Mug will give ya 20 Ninki, and using Ninki on the frog thing and that Baconvakra will consume 40 Ninki instead of 80, allowing a more proper use of our gauge and preventing overcapping. Maybe even buff Meisui to 30 Ninki so it's a lil more useful, but eh.

I feel like making Assassination a lvl 60 skill just makes NIN's low lvl game even weaker. I know low lvl content isn't as important as endgame, but I think they should make it so Assassination plays off of a low lvl skill like Mug, which will boost our overall DPS and give it back to low lvl NINs.

Finally, buff Shukuchi to 25 yalms and/or have the skill "leash" to the maximum distance so we'll get the most out of its use (right now, you either have to use a macro or mouse around a bit to find the best distance to use it).

--one controversial QOL change: get rid of the whole bunnying yourself thing, or at the very least make it reduce the Mudra recast timer by some amount. I don't want NIN to be easy, but it's very punishing if you mess up your mudras or hit a spot of lag. DNC faces little consequence if it fumbles its steps, NIN loses out on one of their most powerful and versatile oGCDs and the bunny is basically a big FU on top of that.

Heres my list of low explanation fix options to examine. Not all are buffs. Some are disputable. Not all of them would work together.

-remove bunny mudra. Allow misteps to funtion exactly like dancers.

-allow movement during TCJ

-shadowfang made part of armor crush combo. (SE->SF->AC)

-Raiton made into a long duration low potency dot + buff basic fuma.

-Throw dagger no longer interrupts mudras or weaponskill combos.

-kassatsu used to execute ninjutsu rather than premptively upgrade.

-Connecting hyosho to fuma instead of hyoton. Hyoton made into an interupt or cooldown timed stun.

-bunshin duration slightly nerfed but full teased effect regained. Or tie it to a set amount of gcds.

-altering meisui+mug for less redundancy and complexity.

-tighten mudra window (from 5 seconds down to 2 seconds) make ninjutsu cast current mudra combination when mudra expires without interrupting anything (Removing one button press from ninjutsuing and allowing the removal of the ability from hotbar)

-adjust ninki so we dont overcap as easily via extending the guage or scaling down some values.

-enhance shukuchis max range slightly. Having the same range as a traditional jump to target move just makes it a weaker version in most applications. It needs a payoff for its difficulty.

-let tcj cast on each mudra input negating the need for 3 button presses during its cast. Drasticly streamlining the move.

-disconnect dwd from assassinate. Let dwd work off of trick to provide an additional 10% dmg buff for the nin for 10 seconds after it lands.

-alternatively just make trick attack personal.

-maybe give us some alternate utility in the form of a combat party wide move speed buff and make trick attack more personal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vendalwind

snip.

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Yes, please. I'd be so happy with even 1/4th of these changes.

Primarily TA becoming personal (or nerfing rDPS to 5%; compensating potencies, especially AE/Raiton), Kassatsu execute, Fuma -> Hyosho, TCJ less button presses.

I'm not max level, but something I would love to have is a targeted gap closer, I feel like i waste a ton of time in any fight just running around aimlessly while other melee jump and hop around at will. Seems like Ninja, of all classes, should have the most fluid movements and battlefield mobility.
Shukuchi has its uses, but it feels slow and clunky, has a rather lackluster range (i often run halfway there before it finally kicks off) and doesn't work well with terrain. If it was able to teleport to higher/lower ground or through walls it would be much much better.

What I want as an ability is a direct to enemy dash that does some damage, or maybe interupts spellcasts, or even does damage to every enemy in the a line to the target.

Throwing the list I made in another thread here.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I think Dancer serves as an excellent Template for jobs that go "Alternative Mode".

Consider:

Ninjutsu
Ability
Recast: 1s ( 30 second once finished)
Effect: For the next 10 seconds, Aeolian Edge becomes Ten, Armor Crush becomes Chi, and Shadowfang becomes Jin.

Ninjutsu is recast again to perform an action based on what Mudras are performed.

None: Rabbit. Heals the Ninja for 20% of their maximum health.
Rest are Unchanged

Ten (Or Chi / Jin)
Spell
Range: 25y (Optional Target)
Recast: 1.0
Effect: Perform the Mudra for Ten (Or Chi / Jin). If an enemy is targeted, that enemy takes 100 potency.

This allows Ninja to keep its Mudras, but solves the clipping issue by moving them to the GCD. Ninjutsu itself is OGCD and serves as Starter and Ender. The Mudras themselves being on the GCD (and providing passable damage for the GCD when enemies are present) means you're no longer clipping your GCD, either on two mudra with higher ping, or 3 mudra as always. Them being GCD also grants them an easy cost / benefit ratio.

Then we add two more changes, one of which can take advantage of 3 new button spots that the action shift provides us.

Ten Chi Jin
Ability
Recast: 30
Charges: Maximum 3.
Effect: Execute the current mudra combination. Increases the potency of mudra combinations cast by Ninjutsu by 50% for 5 seconds.

Throw Dagger
Weaponskill
Range: 15y
Effect: Throws daggers at the target for 150 potency.
Combo Potency - Any Mudra: 240.
Combo Effect - Any Mudra: Throw Dagger does not interrupt Weaponskill Combos or Mudra strings.

^^^ Weaving tool! Potency puts it at less than Mudra chaining, but more than clipping a GCD to cast the Ninjutsu. Plus, Ninjas in FF have always been about throwing stuff. Throw Daggers should be more prominent! Also provides the ninja with decent enough ranged options if forced out for some time.

Suppose one more change just for the sake of "flow".

Kassatsu
Ability
Recast: Whateveritisnow
Charges: 2
Effect: Execute the current Mudra combination with a superior effect. Only certain Mudra Combinations work. Ends current Mudra Combination. [Aka Ninjutsu goes on cooldown]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atamis

I'm not max level, but something I would love to have is a targeted gap closer, I feel like i waste a ton of time in any fight just running around aimlessly while other melee jump and hop around at will. Seems like Ninja, of all classes, should have the most fluid movements and battlefield mobility.
Shukuchi has its uses, but it feels slow and clunky, has a rather lackluster range (i often run halfway there before it finally kicks off) and doesn't work well with terrain. If it was able to teleport to higher/lower ground or through walls it would be much much better.

What I want as an ability is a direct to enemy dash that does some damage, or maybe interupts spellcasts, or even does damage to every enemy in the a line to the target.

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While we dont necessarily have one you can macro it using a <t> modifier. This means you will automatically shikuchi to the target with just one button. No teleport over gaps tho :(

Edit: cuz mobile hates me

Just get Rid of Ten-Chi-Jin Its complete Cancer , Cant Move And lose So many moves everytime you use it. just make it Ability like kusatsu, that gives you triple dmg and make 60 min. per use. would fix Ninja By whole ALOT

I still say, give us shadewalker, and have it be a "partner" buff, like dancers closed position, and make that person the only person besides ninja that benefits from TA.... and also, maybe have suiton have a duration that isnt consumed, and have some more abilities be effected by it... right now its just, put suiton up, consume it with x ability. Maybe make it have an effect with bunshin (maybe bunshin uses trick attack just without the debuff added)