What is the utility of Onslaught and Upheaval?

As I see, those two skills are dps losses unless you use them inside Inner Release, is that correct? Am I missing something?

Also, do other tanks have to pay gauge to use their charge skill? I think it's silly that I can't initiate with my charge most of the time because I don't have gauge, also can't use Infuriate out of battle (not that I'd use Infuriate to charge, as that's a dps loss too).

Shouldn't Onslaught be changed as to not use gauge and Upheaval be changed to actually be useful?

Upheaval should still be used on cd, because 450 potency ogcd for 20 gauge is a lot better than 590 gcd for 50 gauge, even with the cd reduction to infuriate. You should skip a use of it only, if it drifts outside of your IR window, to realign it. Onslaughti suseful, if it gets you another gcd and sometimes gets used to dump your beast gauge, allthough the later doesn't happen often, normaly only after the opener.

Onslaught is in a really awkward place atm, it costing gauge on one hand ,it costing gauge helps to make the WAR rotation flow really nicely, but on the other hand it messes with it and it is somewhat of a potency loss if used too freely.

This is fantastic. The word "utility" has truly, and utterly lost all meaning. It means everything from mitigation, self-healing, raid buffs, interrupts, mobility tools, to now dps. We can now safely toss it in the bin alongside words such as "clunky."

I'm so tired of seeing Onslaught complaints at this point. Switch Onslaught to being identical to every other tank gap closer (reduce 20 yalm range to 15 yalms, increase 10 second recast to 30 seconds, allow for 2 charges, and remove potency from WAR elsewhere so that no net boost to total dps results from the change). While you do that, give the present Onslaught to DRK, because if you're halfway smart about resource management, it's a superior gap closer in every way. We're the only tanks with any real resource management anyways, so we might as well keep that uniform across the board.

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Originally Posted by Kyni

Upheaval should still be used on cd, because 450 potency ogcd for 20 gauge is a lot better than 590 gcd for 50 gauge, even with the cd reduction to infuriate. You should skip a use of it only, if it drifts outside of your IR window, to realign it. Onslaughti suseful, if it gets you another gcd and sometimes gets used to dump your beast gauge, allthough the later doesn't happen often, normaly only after the opener.

Onslaught is in a really awkward place atm, it costing gauge on one hand ,it costing gauge helps to make the WAR rotation flow really nicely, but on the other hand it messes with it and it is somewhat of a potency loss if used too freely.

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How does that work? It costing gauge makes me want to use sprint to get to the mob instead of using it, because at the end of the day it's 20 gauge that could be going to a fell cleave. Also it costing gauge makes me unable to use it to initiate fights.

That's why I can't see its utility, there is no incentive to use it. Sure it feels great, but its cost outweights its utility.

Damage apparently not useful. *sips tea*

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Originally Posted by Nyoraii

How does that work? It costing gauge makes me want to use sprint to get to the mob instead of using it, because at the end of the day it's 20 gauge that could be going to a fell cleave. Also it costing gauge makes me unable to use it to initiate fights.

That's why I can't see its utility, there is no incentive to use it. Sure it feels great, but its cost outweights its utility.

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Sprint does have a 60 seconds cooldown and is not instant so you still might lose a gcd even while sprintig and that would still be at least a 200 potency loss (in case of losing only a heavy swing), while onslaught is just shy of 20 potency loss comapred to spending the gauge on fell cleave(haven't realy mathed it out, but it's very unlikely to be even in the same ballpark as the 200 potency you gain at a minimum from the additional gcd). So yes, onslaught is a dps gain, if you get a gcd out of it.

The other use case ( Gauge managment) might allow you to better allign your burst with raid buffs, for example you should always be aiming to get 2 IC 1 FC and 1 Upheavle under trick ( except when IR is ready at the same time). But this is a more advanced usage of it and is only very rarely benefical, so don't overthink it.

To sum it up: Use Onslaught during IR and when you would gain a gcd from it and you should be good.

They make you look cool. Onslaught gets you from point A to point B, and makes you look badass doing it. I mean, it's a freakin' shoulder tackle! What's not to like? It's also an effective dodging ability, like all gap closers. Upheaval hits hard for it's gauge cost, and you're doing a makeshift shoryuken. Sounds pretty neat to me.

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Originally Posted by Nyoraii

Shouldn't Onslaught be changed as to not use gauge and Upheaval be changed to actually be useful?.

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Can't tell if you're trolling about upheaval or not. Fell Cleave is 590 potency for a cost of 50 gauge, which is 11.8 potency per gauge point (590/50). Upheaval is 450 potency for a cost of 20 gauge, which is 22.5 potency per gauge point (450/20). In other words, upheaval gives you more damage per gauge.

Use upheaval on cooldown. Onslaught is situational. I recommend https://thebalanceffxiv.com/ and it's associated discord for any further questions.

Upheaval is a dps gain.
Onslaught is a dps loss and you should not use it outside IR.

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Originally Posted by Nyoraii

I think it's silly that I can't initiate with my charge most of the time because I don't have gauge...

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I don't think you normally want to start with a gap closer unless you want the dps to be behind a gcd or more for the fight.