Redesigning fire 1

F1, despite still being an important spell for our rotation ("fast" spell for refreshing AF and fishing for F3 procs), looks out of place and outdated at max level. It's like an AST casting malefic 1 at lv70.

It would be nice to get an updated animation on this spell, like AST goes from malefic I to III but there could be some problems arising with the current nomenclature (eg we already have fire 2-3-4 which aren't an upgrade but completely different spells).

A solution could be re-designing F3 to be a direct replacement of F1.
- F3: replaces F1, has 180 potency and 40% chance to let you cast an upgraded version of F3 which is instant and has 260 potency (same mana cost as F1).

However, this would also affect the swap time between AF and UI which would be accelerated and easier (remember, current F3 has 3.5s cast time). I don't think this would make anyone unhappy, but if you wanted to keep things as they currently are, then an ulterior change would be to reduce the amount of haste given by UI for fire spells or AF for ice spells. This way, mechanically nothing changes.

This change could be applied to B1 -> B3 as well with no difference in gameplay. This way we'd have B1, F1 and T1 which get replaced by B3, F3, T3 and make it feel more coherent during level progression.

What do you think about this? Have additional ideas?

It effectively changes nothing beyond having less initial time in AF. You lose about half a second of dead time with F3 being 1.25 transition instead of 1.75. I honestly don't see a point.

With a small change to F3 visual that'd be nice (I mean, it looks like a smoke fart...)

Idk, I kind of enjoy the comedic value of all those giant animated explosions having one tiny fire 1 wack weaved in there.

if you are talking visually yeah it does a little bit flimsy, fire 1 spell is basically copy pasta of that fire wisp that you fight in sastasha dungeon (your first dungeon) where you get this a lot of fire wisp with the clamp shell (you know which one)

and when you cast it, it didnt even go straight lol it does this wobbly animation like the spell is cast in novice way or some sort.

but it has the charm i must say

its the same on most ARR classes. I mean look at SMN's Ruin and Ruin 2 compared to Ruin 3 and Ruin 4?

Im not saying it wouldn't be cool to get updated animations, but i feel given the number of classes and jobs this would need to be done for, its very unlikely. But then again, it may just be a caster problem, as the melee actions seem pretty cool (though i dont' play them often enough to form a judgment on it)

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Originally Posted by Metallus

A solution could be re-designing F3 to be a direct replacement of F1.
- F3: replaces F1, has 180 potency and 40% chance to let you cast an upgraded version of F3 which is instant and has 260 potency (same mana cost as F1).

However, this would also affect the swap time between AF and UI which would be accelerated and easier (remember, current F3 has 3.5s cast time).

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This change would not affect the swap time after Lv40 (acquisition of M&MII trait, allowing a third elemental stack). From then on, three stacks grant opposite spells a 50% cast time reduction but 0% recast reduction. As Fire III has a cast time of 3.5s, its cast time under the effect of Astral Fire III is 1.75s, but the GCD remains 2.5s. Reducing its cast time to Fire's 3.0s cast would reduce its cast time under the effect of Astral Fire III to 1.5s, still with a 2.5s GCD. Ergo, no change.


A note about the potency you listed for Firestarter Fire III, though. The potency is currently 240. Changing Fire III to be a direct upgrade and replacement of Fire I would make it much harder to cast the "wrong" spell, in regards to when Firestarter procs. Currently, you have a fraction of a second to notice the marching ants and decide to cast Firestarter Fire III instead of Fire I. If you're not quick enough, you'll keep your finger on Fire I and potentially waste and overwrite the proc. If Fire III became the spam spell replacing Fire I outright, this source of player error would be eliminated, and the potency of Firestarter Fire III should be reduced slightly to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

This change would not affect the swap time after Lv40 (acquisition of M&MII trait, allowing a third elemental stack). From then on, three stacks grant opposite spells a 50% cast time reduction but 0% recast reduction. As Fire III has a cast time of 3.5s, its cast time under the effect of Astral Fire III is 1.75s, but the GCD remains 2.5s. Reducing its cast time to Fire's 3.0s cast would reduce its cast time under the effect of Astral Fire III to 1.5s, still with a 2.5s GCD. Ergo, no change.


A note about the potency you listed for Firestarter Fire III, though. The potency is currently 240. Changing Fire III to be a direct upgrade and replacement of Fire I would make it much harder to cast the "wrong" spell, in regards to when Firestarter procs. Currently, you have a fraction of a second to notice the marching ants and decide to cast Firestarter Fire III instead of Fire I. If you're not quick enough, you'll keep your finger on Fire I and potentially waste and overwrite the proc. If Fire III became the spam spell replacing Fire I outright, this source of player error would be eliminated, and the potency of Firestarter Fire III should be reduced slightly to compensate.

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1) You are correct, nothing really changes in gameplay by being 0.25s faster on an already fast spell when the gcd is 2.5s. I just wanted to address any potential change it could have in order to keep things as they currently are.

2) I wrote the wrong potency (flare), so pretend it's 240 pot. Also the source of error would be eliminated only for sub60 gameplay. In fact, in current gameplay, you actually hold on F3 procs when they happen in order to refresh AF after another session of F4 spam. Rarely you find yourself casting F1->F3 back to back. It only happens if you have to transpose and regain 2 stacks of AF quickly. But with this change you wouldn't even need to do that because one single cast of F1(now F3) would get you the 2 stacks on the first cast.

Also to clarify, the aim of this change is to keep everything as it is gameplay-wise (because I know people are not prone to such changes, just like me since I enjoy current gameplay), but it's only to make all high level gameplay look good instead of waving in that ridiculous will'o wisp between explosion spam :D

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It effectively changes nothing beyond having less initial time in AF. You lose about half a second of dead time with F3 being 1.25 transition instead of 1.75. I honestly don't see a point.

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The point is updating the animation of Fire 1 while not modifying the gameplay at all. By saying that nothing would change you are confirming that this change only affects the animation, which is the only thing I'm looking for.

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Originally Posted by Metallus

The point is updating the animation of Fire 1 while not modifying the gameplay at all. By saying that nothing would change you are confirming that this change only affects the animation, which is the only thing I'm looking for.

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Fire V
Lv. 72 Spell
1s Cast
2.5s Recast
1000 MP
Deals fire damage with a potency of 200.
Replaces Fire when under effect of Astral Fire III.
Additional Effect: Grants Astral Fire or removes Umbral Ice
Duration: 13s
Additional Effect: 40% chance next Fire III will cost no MP and have no casting time
Duration: 18s