Garlean timeline question

Aulus, Varis, the lorebooks, and the Garlean partisans in the fandom have pointed to the inability of pureblooded Garleans to manipulate aether as the causus belli for Imperial aggression: the Garleans are just defending themselves or getting revenge for being forced into the inhospitable northern reaches of Ilsaberd by the magically-inclined races. The implication seems to be that happened recently. Do we know where the Garleans were originally, when they were forced north, and who drove them out of the more habitable areas?

The lorebook is probably the best source of information is the least biased version. Your best bet is to look at the Timeline of the 6th Astral Era and do some math with dates. As for the info in the lore book...

The Garleans were originally in southern Othard, probably around where Dalmasca is now.

They were gradually forced northwards, mostly because they couldn't keep up with the magical arms race of all the other races. It should be mentioned that around a third of the "Garlean Population" is actually not racially Garlean at all. So a third of the Cultural Garleans can use aether just as well as everyone else can. What is not known is if the Garleans were specifically discriminated against because of their race or if they just couldn't have a fair fight with other nations because most of their population was at a magical disadvantage.

That northward migration happened over 700 years ago. It ended when the Garleans got to Northern Ilsabard and didn't have anywhere else to go. They eventually found ceruleum and used it as a fuel source and founded their first northern cities. In 922, the northern Garlean cities finally banded together to create the Garlean Republic. The Garlean Republic would last for 600 years. During that time, they would successfully defend their land from invaders, weather that be through subterfuge or conventional warfare. It was pretty obvious the Garleans were in northern Ilsabard to stay.

The Republic ended when a Legatus named Solus Galvus introduced magitek to the military, which turned the tables on Garlemald's enemies. Now Garlemald was winning the magitek arms race. Solus began conquering the nations surrounding the Garlean Repbulic and eventually declared himself Emperor and took over the Republic. Garlemald was now an Empire.

Ever since then, Garlemald has steadily expanded it's borders, almost always though military might.

So yeah, the Garlean homeland has been Northern Ilsabard for over 700 years. And they had one of the longest running stable democracies in the Three Great Continents (only older democracy is Sharalayn). And then for some reason (looks at Solus), they go off on a conquering spree. It kinda makes you wonder why they didn't try to do that earlier; they've had plenty of time to do so.

D'oh! I was looking in the wrong place in the lore book; the information I wanted is in the timeline section. What's interesting is that the first reference to the Garleans states that they "lost their territorial claims in southern Ilsabard--I didn't find the reference to them originating in Othard. The next reference is to their capital being raided by Hyuran nomads from the north, and a mention of how the Garleans hired Roegadyn battle mages as mercenaries and then didn't want to pay them, in a nice echo of the problems that plagued early Rome.

This seems to suggest that the commonly cited justification for Garlean aggression doesn't hold water. It wasn't the ancestors of the Eorzeans and Domans who forced the ancestral Garleans into inhospitable regions. Of course, we now know that's nonsense anyway, because Solus stated up front why the Empire exists: to cause chaos and spark a Calamity. But even if you discount the "because Ascians" thing, it seems pretty clear the "Garleans are just doing what was done to them by the magic-using races" argument to justify the invasion and occupation of Doma and Ala Mhigo doesn't really make sense.

Along with the whole you're all savages and lower than us only because we have better tech as part of the reason. Right now I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that the races that did the "bullying" of them weren't told to do so by the Ascians. As it feels like it came out of the blue and then just stopped after they were pushed into Northern Ilsabard. That and no one else so far who lives around them seem to recall or have records of that happening. Obviously it must have as no one refutes that it didn't. That is until we learn more if we learn more.

I'm pretty sure the 'get back at them for mistreating us' thing is just propagnda. Maybe the general Garlean population believe it and the rank and file military, and what they espouse to their enemies. But I think it's just that, propaganda. The real reason Solus founded the empire wasn't revenge against the savages or to stop primals. The Empire was founded to turn Garlemald into an instrument to cause a calamity by the Ascians. But of course, they can't just tell the Garlean people about all of that. Only the people at the very top seem ti know the truth. Even Varis seemed ignorant of the truth until he actually took the throne.

Nobody wants to go to war to cause civilization collapsing disasters and carry out the will of mysterious robed fiends. But to get back at the savages and stop them from destroying the world with their reckless eikons? That's a lot easier to sell to your own people.

According to the original lore book it's also worth noting that Northern Ilsabard is practically inhospitable. If not for the presence of Ceruleum, the Garleans would have died out. Add in their lack of ability to manipulate Aether bar a few rare exceptions and they endured generations of a lifestyle that wasn't particularly pleasant. Magitek is a rather recent discovery as is the invasion of areas outside of Ilsabard - and as we now know, that can largely be attributed to the Ascians.

I'd consider the Garleans to be reasonably justified in taking control of Ilsabard itself whereas their claim to anything beyond their borders is not justified at all. As always, my hope is that Garlemald will return to a Republic yet maintain control of Ilsabard so that it can stand as an equal with the likes of Eorzea and Hingashi. If the Garleans control Southern Ilsabard, they'd be able to grow their own food more effectively as the climate is more agreeable. If they lose control of it, they'll be forced to rely on foreign trade which is a recipe for potential disaster. After all, ceruleum is finite and they require it to survive the harsh environment that is Nothern Ilsabard.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

According to the original lore book it's also worth noting that Northern Ilsabard is practically inhospitable. If not for the presence of Ceruleum, the Garleans would have died out. Add in their lack of ability to manipulate Aether bar a few rare exceptions and they endured generations of a lifestyle that wasn't particularly pleasant. Magitek is a rather recent discovery as is the invasion of areas outside of Ilsabard - and as we now know, that can largely be attributed to the Ascians.

I'd consider the Garleans to be reasonably justified in taking control of Ilsabard itself whereas their claim to anything beyond their borders is not justified at all. As always, my hope is that Garlemald will return to a Republic yet maintain control of Ilsabard so that it can stand as an equal with the likes of Eorzea and Hingashi. If the Garleans control Southern Ilsabard, they'd be able to grow their own food more effectively as the climate is more agreeable. If they lose control of it, they'll be forced to rely on foreign trade which is a recipe for potential disaster. After all, ceruleum is finite and they require it to survive the harsh environment that is Nothern Ilsabard.

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before we decide what is justified or reasonable for the garleans how about the give back all lands they have stolen and release the people they have enslaved. if said people/ territory the have stolen wishes to remain with them going foward then fair enough but it has to be their choice their freedom to choose.

The question remains: How long does a country have the rights to a place? We know that they had been away from their original country for centuries (Varis himself even said that). Centuries means quite a few generations that have passed. Maybe those that originally defeated them dont even live there anymore. Does this give Garlemald any right to take it back? In their view it does but again when does this stop?

Seemingly some anchestors of the Garlean race are from Goug..which was destroyed and they had to flee so it was seemingly not the same place that they were forced to leave because of other people. So was their old place in Ilsabard really theirs or did they also take it by force? (And lets not forget that even them banding together as tribes to fight back against the onces that forced them out was not always done peacefully. Some of those tribes were forced into that alliance against their will which is stated in the lorebook too. So how many of those that are even living on Ilsabard do want to be under their rule?)

Also like Kusanagi points out, if its reasonable that Garleans should take back their land after centuries...then they really should not go around and conquer other countries or be angry when those people fight back against them.

In the end I wonder if this was not just another plan by the Ascians. I really doubt right now that all their progress with Magitek was completely on their own and maybe they played a hand in forcing them out too.

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Originally Posted by Rosenoire

Aulus, Varis, the lorebooks, and the Garlean partisans in the fandom have pointed to the inability of pureblooded Garleans to manipulate aether as the causus belli for Imperial aggression: the Garleans are just defending themselves or getting revenge for being forced into the inhospitable northern reaches of Ilsaberd by the magically-inclined races. The implication seems to be that happened recently. Do we know where the Garleans were originally, when they were forced north, and who drove them out of the more habitable areas?

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Well they were forced out from a part of Ilsabard to another part of Ilsabard. Eorzea and Doma had nothing to do with any of that. So Garlemald is purely the aggressor on this (and we know that the primal summoing as reasons are also just lies) so if they somehow think they are right with taking this out on the rest of the world then that would be messed up. And as Varis himself and the lore book pointed out, they had centuries after they are forced out before they were a united state. And after that it still took some years to make it an empire. So no its not really recent which makes the argument that it was in their right even worse.

The Garleans were pushed from southern to northern Ilsabard ~800-900 years ago. Some of their ancestors may have come from south-central Othard, where the Ivalice of FFXIV was located.

The reason for the Empire's expansion beyond Ilsabard (which they hold some ancestral claim to; whether or not it's enough to justify their actions is open to interpretation) was stated to be preventing the summoning and spread of eikons due to the dangers they pose. However, this is simply a lie that was sold to the common people by Solus and doesn't hold up under scrutiny - the only real reason for the Empire's continued aggression against every other nation is to cause Calamities. (The previous and currently reigning Emperor have different motives for doing so, but the means to their ends are exactly the same.)