(Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

Now that a couple weeks have passed since the patch released, I have to say, the Ghimlyt Dark was an amazing dungeon, aesthetic-wise. The environment, the setting, the feeling of actually being in a war after the cutscenes preceding it made the dungeon feel like one of the best ones we’ve had in post-Stormblood patches. The actual enemies we dealt with though…eh, not so much.

Not even accounting for gear, most of the fights were…actually rather easy to pick up on. Trash mobs are trash mobs as always, and even though the bosses did hit hard, The Burn had much more of a bite to it, in my opinion. Of all the level 70 dungeons we’ve gotten so far, the Burn still is the only one that feels appropriately difficult for level 70, and I personally think that is a problem. The devs’ insistence on closing the skill gap doesn’t…really help anything if the vast majority of the bosses we deal stop being difficult after the first couple of runs. I’d hoped that the Mist Dragon would be the start of the end of these faceroll dungeons…then we get Ghimlyt.

I like that dungeon. It fits thematically and it is one of my absolute favorite SB dungeons…except it’s a faceroll dungeon. Next expansion, we’re going to be hitting level 80 – it seems a bit ridiculous to fathom that by the time we start getting those dungeons, they will be the same as 90% of the dungeons we’ve already been through – faceroll.

Rather than trying to close the skill gap, I feel like the devs need to stop holding players’ hands in Shadowbringers and actually step up the difficulty. By the time players reach level 70, even jump potioned up to lvl 60, they should have a basic expectation on how to play their jobs. Not even asking for Savage, Ex…or hell, even 24-man difficulty here. Just hoping that the devs stop being so afraid to actually pull the trigger and make these dungeons feel like they’re worth something.

And if the devs are so worried about players complaining about difficulty…well, people already complained about Shinryu, Tsukyomi, Byakko (why?!), and even the Mist Dragon, and they stuck to their guns on that one. I hope that in Shadowbringers, they don’t produce more dungeons that barely tickle players.

I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.

Hm. I do see your point. I'll also add while we're on the matter that compared to some recent trials, the new one felt easier as well. A bit boring even. The biggest issue there is that it seems Surecast doesn't work against all knockbacks lmao. But that's not really a problem.

As for the dungeons, I think this boils down again to the lack of proper midcore content alongside the gear power creep. Mist Dragon was, by far, one of the less forgiving boss fights we've had in a good while, at least in dungeons. You had to be aware of the entire arena to avoid the fog plumes on the floor, especially when there were two of them. You hit something you shouldn't have? Your party now has to break you out of the ice. And here, have a dps check on top of it all. (and it's still mostly faceroll these days)
But ultimately I look at what I described and while I don't personally think it's that bad, it is a step up from regular dungeons - which are the most softcore content you can find in the game, especially story ones. If anything, I should hope that the next time they add a "Hard Mode" dungeon it's actually hard instead of letting us explore a different or worse - recolored part of a dungeon we've already been to. Those tend to be optional dungeons as well, so the devs can afford to be a bit harder with it. I mean, the filthiest casual should still be allowed to play this game, and we're talking about a story dungeon. Anything that isn't part of the MSQ though? Yeah they need to step up their game.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I've been in parties that have had multiple wipes in Ghimlyt Dark, and one abandoned...

One point to make is that towards the end of an expansion cycle, top gear progression far outpaces minimum gear progression.
This dungeon is what, Minimum ilvl 360 or something? Which means you have to balance it around that for players who have only just reached level 70, while up to date players will be ilvl 380+.

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My contention with this is that at this point, players will not have JUST reached 70. At a minimum, they still have Ala Mhigo, Skalla, Tsukyomi, and the Burn to go through before touching Ghimlyt. Each of them with ilvl walls themselves.

I do agree.
Ghimlyt was too easy to a boring degree.
Its ok to run it once for the story but it's too boring to run it more than once.
Devs needs to understand that this low difficulty lvl doesn't help at all.
Then we wonder why so many players are max lvl and don't know even the basics of this game.
Those Easy Extreme dungeons do not help.

Hm. After playing again. Yeah. It does seem to be a bit easy, huh?

Honestly, if there were to be some kind of difficulty bar to aim for, I'd name the following dungeons for MSQ difficulty: Post-nerf Vault, Sohr Khai, Baelsar's Wall, and The Burn.

For optional dungeons, maybe just a slight step above The Burn to pre-nerf Vault, or hell, even a lvl 80 version of pre-nerf Pharos Sirius and Aurum Vale, but scaled to appropriate levels.

I don't think that would be too difficult for the average-skilled player, would it?

IMO neither the burn was difficult. There were other dungeons on the way up to 70, that were much more troublesome.

The burn is incredibly easy, and you can skip a ton of mechanics if your dps is good enough. It's only "hard" when there are first timers, or low dps/keep dying to easy mechanic.

Considering a dungeon "hard" to do depends on many things and everyone has a different experience. The Burn is indeed a bit more difficult than the ones we've seen before, but just because of Mist Dragon. After you know the mechanics, you do it without problems. Sometimes what makes it "difficult" is the class you play it with. I remember that, personally, before The Vault was nerfed, I had a big struggle leveling SCH there, but it made it kinda fun lol but depends on the person I think, and the class you play. Back in ARR, Aurum Vale used to be a test of how good you knew your class or how to move/play... it still is sometimes. Baelsar's Wall is harder than Ghimlyt Dark imo. Leveling dungeons also tend to be less forgiving due the lack of ilvl I guess, or not having all the skills. I agree tho, the skill needed for dungeons 71+ has to be raised, and the difficult too. We need to stop having high lvl sand boxes.