EDIT: Honestly now that I think about it the Server hops is gonna render this point entirely moot. But seriously you guys? You're gonna get upset over a clearly new player needing help? It's this attitude that makes people shy away from asking for help. You can offer to help new players and express frustration without being a jerk.
So I was doing Baelsars wall and I met this poor blm who had no idea what she was doing. I did my best to coach her on her rotation but it wasn't clicking. We got to the final boss but had to abandon due to no one really understanding their role asides from me and the sam.
I wish I could have swapped to blm and shown her how to do it but she was on another server. Which got me to thinking. What if we had a training ground duty? where people can que up and beat on dummies and fodder waves. Have it have the hall of the novice theme and maybe let mentors invite sprouts to it to show them the ropes.
I doubt it would cost too many resources to implement. Just something to consider.
You know we should have a Training Ground duty
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01-14-2019, 07:01 PMTransient_ShadowYou know we should have a Training Ground duty
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01-14-2019, 07:34 PMShinShimon
People need a hand-holding tutorial dungeon that explicitly teaches rotations, proper dungeon mob clearance for each archetype, and important class-specific mechanics. And give them a bunch of tomestones for first-time completion so they actually do it.
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01-14-2019, 07:46 PMBillyKaplan
I think that's what the novice network is supposed to achieve in the first place, but is hard to force people to do. And ultimately pointless because some people would sooner stop playing if they can't just be carried than ante up
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01-14-2019, 09:29 PMEnkidoh
The ARR main scenario prior to CM is meant to be this - each dungeon and trial inceased incrementally in difficulty as a way of teaching players new mechanics as they levelled and gained new abilities, unfortunately this was lost in the rush to get to 50 and end game. There was the Beginner's Hall and it's related training missions added as well, but again, as the old saying goes: you can lead a chocobo to water but you can't make him drink. Ignorant, stubborn players will never change their tune no matter how much training and tutorials are forced on them, that's just being realistic.
All you can do is move on from bad party experiences and hope your next duty has competent players. -
01-14-2019, 09:40 PMLalaRu
Who wants some training in-game can use SSS.
About specific rotation hints and whatsoever, still we have forum sections for it, when someone doesn't want go third party sites. -
01-15-2019, 12:26 AMNora_of_Mira
Like people have already stated, people that want to get better at their role will seek the tools/advice necessary to do so. In my FC/friend circle (didn't mean to have FC twice), i am that tool. I've been gearing up my friends a LOT this week in Alphascape normal (because the weekly lock is gone) and yeah, there were tons of DPS in those pugs i could've given advice to, but i instead leave my energy to helping people that are actively seeking help as they are much more committed to learning and changing how they play.
the random bad dps? I just let them be, its not going to ruin my day. -
01-15-2019, 12:34 AMTurnipsiWhat is this aimed at? People disagreeing with your idea isn't generally being a jerk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
I also don't see the need for separate hopping system, when we have Hall of the novice, novice network, FCs, mentors, guildhests, gradual leveling dungeons, forums, internet and SE play guides for what they're worth. Also Stone sea sky for testing. None of those systems work, if the player doesn't go for them. This falls into same category. -
01-15-2019, 04:48 AMsplinter1545I don't think anyone is against helping new comers. The problem is that a lot of people don't want that help, and despite the fact we have many programs like NN and Hall of Novice, most don't utilize them. And if someone is all the way at Baelsar's Wall and has no idea how to play their job, that is another problem entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
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01-15-2019, 09:07 AMShougun
I've wanted a training grounds for while, besides making sure I understand how something was intended to be it also sounds fun! I also believe the most difficult training grounds could be used as friendly gates to extreme content (to help increase quality of players in ex/high end content, in a friendly/encouraging way).
For story content though I don't think there should be a gate like that. Perhaps some of the job quests could be better tuned as minor and better teaching gates as some of the job quests are really easy and don't really teach anything (some do actually require some attention lol). That and I do believe players should have to finish their job quests that offer abilities before going too far in new content but otherwise.. it is what it is (MSQ and light content should be pretty low barrier to entry). I mean 60 flat dungeons you must have completed all lower job quests, but the in between 61-69 don't require 61-70 quests done, so leveling dungeons are friendly but cap content (flat 60, flat 70) require the items below it. -
01-15-2019, 06:16 PMHasratI think OP is directed not so much at high level perfected rotations or anything, and more at just simple job basics. I know that I've personally helped out a few budding BLMs understand their astral/umbral swapping (I think BLM in particular may be most in need of coaching such as this, given how critical the mechanic is to the job; requiring just a little more thought than "press the flashing skill").Quote:
Originally Posted by LalaRu
That said, creating such content may still not entirely solve such beginner issues, given how rotations will change while leveling, new mechanics added, etc. At best, I could maybe hope for a level 50/60/70 instance for this, just to hope players going into the end-of-expansion content will have a better chance of stepping up. Everything before/in between is just waiting until you've got all the skills for the intended rotation.