Hello everyone.
I have a few questions regarding Astrologian. I'll number them.
1) If I see a tankbuster coming and I'm in Diurnal sect, what should I do? As a Nocturnal AST I throw Aspected Benefic to give a shield- as SCH I throw Adloq for much the same effect. As WHM, Divine Benison. What's the best thing to use as a Diurnal AST? Is it just making sure Aspected Benfic is on them, and being ready to step in if the Tanks health goes lower than I would like?
2) I hear a lot of people enthusing about Collective Unconcious, but there's something there I'm not seeing. It seems like in situations where the party needs a big AOE heal, I'd want something a bit burstier than potency 150. And at times when all they need is a little AOE heal, aren't I better off doing something that doesn't prevent me launching Malefic's for almost twenty seconds? As far as I can tell, the only times it seems really useful is those bits in Raid where you have to eat the bosses ultimate (due to the damage reduction it offers)
3) Longest question here. This one is simply "Am I using my cards properly?" So, I'm going to list each one and what I tend to do with it.
Balance: Put it on DPS. Generally the one lowest down the Enmity table, as that's the one least likely to snatch aggro from the tanks unless the fight is obviously one best suited for a particular job (e.g. dungeon big pull with BLM in the party).
Bole: Put it on the main tank if it looks like they could do with it (it is essentially free Rampart). Keep if in dungeon and the tank is about to do a big pull. Otherwise, redraw or royal road it. Not sure which is best option of those two though.
Arrow: Put it on a DPS. If there is a BLM around give it to them as it gives them a bit more wiggle room on the post level 60 rotation.
Spear: Again, DPS. Favour Bards.
Ewer: Either play on self or keep for later (if MP intensive bit is likely to happen soon). Else, co healer. Else SMN or RDM if they're MP is looking a bit drained (but absolutely never BLM- they have Umbral Ice). Otherwise, royal road it.
Spire: If one of the Disciples of War is somehow short of TP, give it to them. Otherwise, royal road it.
This does sound a lot like for the most part I'm ignoring everyone whose not a tank. Is this roughly right?
May I AST you a few questions?
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10-22-2018, 08:02 AMWiceMay I AST you a few questions?
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10-22-2018, 08:16 AMTint
I only played WHM, but have an answer for question 1:
First the tank should have enough life to survive the buster. Then you time your heal accordingly to the damage. This means when you see the cast for a tankbuster, you start casting a heal around 2 seconds (depending on your cast time) before the tank recieves damage, so that your heal hits the tank right after he got hit by the buster. So he doesn't sit too long at low HP and get killed by some auto attacks while you are casting.
I think this called pre-casting a heal o.ô; Needs a bit training to get used to the timings. -
10-22-2018, 08:46 AMRongwayIdeally, you will have Dignity available for immediate recovery from the tankbuster. If you don't, precast Benefic/II.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wice
Collective Unconcious is an instant oGCD action that applies a 750 total AoE regen in less than a second (committing most oGCD actions locks you for 0.7s). You don't have to stand there playing Titanic. As soon as you press the button, everyone gets a 750 regen. It also refreshes the duration every time it ticks while you're holding it, so every three seconds that people stand inside it adds another 150. But really, you don't have to hold it for the duration. You can activate it for the regen and then instantly start casting something else. Additionally, applying Celestial Opposition any time before it expires adds another 3-4 ticks, or 450-600 potency per target. So at the cost of 0 seconds / 0 GCDs, you can apply a 1200-1350 potency regen on the entire party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wice
Not that enmity is a solid indication of anything, but if I were basing it purely on enmity, I would actually buff the people who are higher up. It's not your job to prevent people from out-aggroing the tank. Give it to the person who will get the most benefit from it, and let them and the tank worry about who's tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wice
In a light party duty, use your Ewers and Spires. In light parties, don't Road your Spires and Ewers during combat because then you will be spending two draws on less than 200% effect, since AoE 50% on four people is not as effective as 100% on the best target twice. In particular, don't Road a Spire or Ewer unless you are already holding a Balance/Spear to use with it. Roading a Spire or Ewer without a Balance/Spear to use with it reduces the value of your next Draw.
Still in light party, your best Road card in the middle of combat will be Arrow, because 200% duration with 100% effect is still 200% effect per two draws. Roading a Bole gives only 150% per two draws, and Roading a Spire/Ewer gives less than 200% effect per two draws. However, if you're between combats, the opportunity cost of Roading a Bole, Spire, or Ewer is less, so the net benefit is greater.
In full parties, burn all the Spires and Ewers. All the AoEs, all the splodies. -
10-22-2018, 09:01 AMHyoMinParkIf you know a tankbuster is coming and you are in Diurnal sect, try to time a heal on them to heal them up afterwards. In any content where a tankbuster would be a danger, you should have a shield healer anyways (if you’re Di AST, then you should have a SCH), and they will be responsible for shielding the MT for the buster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wice
Personally, I try to use Essential Dignity/time a Lady of Crowns if I have one to heal up after TBs if I am in Diurnal, since I cannot cast shields to mitigate the damage. I only time GCD heals if Essential is not off-cooldown.
CU gives a potent, short-duration HoT in addition to its damage mitigation. You would want to use it for AOE raid damage that you simultaneously would like to mitigate and use your HoTs to tick up the remaining damage.Quote:
2) I hear a lot of people enthusing about Collective Unconcious, but there's something there I'm not seeing. It seems like in situations where the party needs a big AOE heal, I'd want something a bit burstier than potency 150. And at times when all they need is a little AOE heal, aren't I better off doing something that doesn't prevent me launching Malefic's for almost twenty seconds? As far as I can tell, the only times it seems really useful is those bits in Raid where you have to eat the bosses ultimate (due to the damage reduction it offers).
Since they shifted CU’s effects off of the server tick, you can weave it in between Malefic III casts now, rather than sitting in it doing nothing while you wait for the server tick to register like you used to have to do. The mitigation effect will linger for a few seconds afterward, so proper timing can give you mitigation against AOE damage, and a HoT to tick HP values back up while you continue to weave in damage spells—as opposed to casting Aspected Helios for a weaker, longer lasting HoT. During any heavy raid damage, your shield healer should be casting shields to also mitigate the damage, and if the damage is properly mitigated, CU’s HoT can be used to tick up HP values back to full or near-full instead of using a GCD on a Helios/Aspected Helios/ET+Succor.
For any skill that would require you to sit in CU for an extended period of time, the boss tends to not be targetable. In the current tier, this would be things like Chaos’ Ultimate in V9S, Midgarsormr’s Protostar in V10S, and Omega’s Delta Attack in V11S. Since the boss isn’t targetable, sitting in CU is not a loss in terms of damage. I haven’t progged far enough into V12S to see if it has anything similar, though Omega-M and F do not appear to have any skills yet that require you to lose GCDs sitting in CU for an extended period of time.
UwU did not require this after they shifted CU off the server tick with Patch 4.4. The only ultimates our AST sat in CU for was Ultima’s first cast of Ultima when you also tank LB3 (during the transition where you use all the Beyond Limits LB3s), in which he was untargetable anyways, so no damage was lost. For the second tank LB3 Ultima, she just timed it to where the mitigation lasted through the outgoing damage (plus we had SCH shields to help mitigate on top of the LB).
Really, CU’s usage boils down to proper timing with your co-healer, and just utilizing your full kit. It’s a tool at your disposal that you should always incorporate into your healing. For an example of when I’ve used it, I use it to mitigate damage in stacks and to tick up HP values after the damage has registered. I weave it between Malefic IIIs so that I can make the most efficient use of my GCDs and toolkit.
No, Balance should go on a DPS that is doing the most damage, or who is in a burst phase where they can make the most use out of the +10% damage (assuming you aren’t Expanding it in an 8-man setting). Enmity is not a good measure of damage, however; sadly, the only way you’ll know who is doing the most is by using a third-party tool to see damage values.Quote:
3) Longest question here. This one is simply "Am I using my cards properly?" So, I'm going to list each one and what I tend to do with it.
Balance: Put it on DPS. Generally the one lowest down the Enmity table, as that's the one least likely to snatch aggro from the tanks unless the fight is obviously one best suited for a particular job (e.g. dungeon big pull with BLM in the party).
This is fine. In addition to Redraw/Royal Road, you can also use it as Minor Arcana fodder for a Lady or Lord (if you’re at an applicable level to do so). Which option you pick depends on a couple of different things, such as “Am I already holding something in my Minor Arcana” (if so, try to use it so you can reroll the unwanted Bole into your Minor Arcana) or “Am I holding a card that would be better off as an Enhanced single-target or should I keep it Expanded/Extended”. Most of these are decisions that you have to make on the fly, and it can be difficult to pin a “right or wrong”/“black or white” answer to.Quote:
Bole: Put it on the main tank if it looks like they could do with it (it is essentially free Rampart). Keep if in dungeon and the tank is about to do a big pull. Otherwise, redraw or royal road it. Not sure which is best option of those two though.
Arrow works well on BLMs, and I have heard that DRGs also like Arrows. I’ve met some MNKs that like Arrows, too, though that may be a preference. Some jobs do not want Arrows at all (e.g., NIN).Quote:
Arrow: Put it on a DPS. If there is a BLM around give it to them as it gives them a bit more wiggle room on the post level 60 rotation.
Yes. BRD or MNK love Spears (because Crit reliance).Quote:
Spear: Again, DPS. Favour Bards.
But, as a BRD main, always give them to your friendly neighborhood BRD. Especially if you have an Enhanced Spear for a Minuet+RS window. ;3
I tend to use Ewers on myself, because AST MP management is not as good as it was in HW. If I do not need it, I will give it to a co-healer if they are low, or a RDM/SMN if they have recently died. Otherwise, Royal Road or Minor Arcana.Quote:
Ewer: Either play on self or keep for later (if MP intensive bit is likely to happen soon). Else, co healer. Else SMN or RDM if they're MP is looking a bit drained (but absolutely never BLM- they have Umbral Ice). Otherwise, royal road it.
Yes. Spires are mostly RR/Minor Arcana fodder because TP is a non-issue nowadays. Especially if you have a physical ranged with Tactician available, or a melee that has Goad for a DPS or tank that recently died.Quote:
Spire: If one of the Disciples of War is somehow short of TP, give it to them. Otherwise, royal road it.
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10-22-2018, 09:03 AMKDSilver
1) - Precasting Benefic II if the tank buster's gonna drop your tank's life really low (and the next auto-attack might kill)
- Keep Essential Dignity ready for the same reason as above
- Just be sure he has Aspected Benefic on him and you can "ignore him". If you're paired with a scholar, Aspected Benefic + Embrace from the scholar fairy will heal him through this with no prob.
Adjust your choice based your experience : if you more or less know the damage your tank should eat, and if you're feeling confident enough on the tank/your co-healer/yourself to let the regen do the job.
2 )CU is awesome because it mitigate 10% of the incoming damages and put a Hot ON people.
You don't need to stand still to have the HOT on people. If you need to burst heal, you have Eartly Star or you can precast and cast Helios/Aspected Helios.
150 potency is just like WHM Regen, but on everyone. What make it really good is that as AST, you also have 2 great skill to manipulate your buff timer : Time Dilatation and Celestial Opposition. With proprer use or those, your party can benefit from this regen for a longer time. It's also mana saving cause you won't have to cast Aspected Helios. (for example, time dilatation CU's HoT on the tank)
It works well if the party get hits by a huge raid aoe but there's a long "downtime" where only the tank will get hit by AA. CU will have enough time to top off everyone. But even if you need burst heal, CU's hot will help alongside Helios for example.
Just note that you can pop CU and immediatly cancel the animation by moving, and the HoT will apply as well as the 10% mitigation which wil stay for 5s~. So you can easily cast your malefic, pop CU, keep casting malefic. With aproper timing when seeing the raid aoe coming, you might see its power.
3) Cards.
On 8-man raids, trying to make your cards aoe as much as possible because that's the most efficient. If not, enhanced is second, but also better for 4-man content.
Balance : Good on every dps, preferably on the one dealing the most damage.
Bole : Tanks of course, but it has also situationnal and niche uses. If you struggle healing trough a mecanic with your co-healer (training, low ilvl gear, mitigation problem) then aoe bole might eventually help. Otherwise, once a fight is mastered, burn it for the enhanced effect/minor arcana
Arrow: Avoid Brd, mch, drg, smn, rdm and ninja. Won't give every single reason but those are who get less use of it or because Arrow can mess up their rotation (clipping).
Smn for example only cast Ruin III. So it's be a dps increase indeed, but the majority of it's dps come from hGCD, so it'll be better on a class having a good use of high sks/sps
Spear : Good on everyone, choose Mnk and Brd first.
Ewer : Burn it for aoe effect or eventually keep it for yourself/your co-healer or rdm who have to over raised too much. Smn won't need it, he has a lot of tools of mana recovery. Ewer usage are when things are really getting bad. Otherwise, it's a loss because that another dps cards you could have use on the pt.
Note : it can actually be a "dps increase" if cast on brd during foe requiem. But if that happen then you must have been really unlucky or messed up with your cards. So, I'm telling this because it does exists as a way to "boost" dps, but really the very last solution to pick.
Spire : burn burn and burn.
Only situation when it might eventually be useful (rare) : dungeons, huge pack, melee being drough in tp because overall dps is too slow to kill mobs. -
10-22-2018, 09:06 AMWice
Thankyou everyone- especially for the explanation of Collective Unconscious. The tooltip made it look like it would only do it's thing if I stood there like a lemon for the entire duration, but knowing that's not the case does make it's usefulness much more obvious.
Good point. One of the reasons I've been tempted to give it to the person lowest down the enmity table is because they're the ones who are most likely to be using their enmity management abilities, because while it's not my job to prevent people snatching aggro from the Tank, it is (in part) the job of that damage dealer to keep their enmity under some control, so I'm more inclined to buff the folk who are doing that part of the job. But if they are using those abilities that will be obvious from their buff bars (and I'm usually good enough at keeping an eye on everyone's health to notice this sort of thing), so the enmity table is not a good indication of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongway
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10-22-2018, 06:13 PMMOZZYSTAR
Edit: might've been answered fine already, oops!
-1 Prepare a benefic right away (time it so you heal just as the tank buster heals), top it off with a regen if you need to, or use your cd heal (follow up with regen or benefic as necessary)
-2 Collective unconscious casts a barrier + regen on top of you and your friends, so it’s good to use during instances when people huddle up for an ultimate move type deal. I almost never use it in a regulate dungeon.
-3 For cards, you’ve pretty much got the right idea, but it’s a bit simplified.
I tend to like to do royal roads. So, I will royal road a balance or a bole if the party doesn’t necessarily need it for enhanced effects. If I get an arrow or a balance or a bole (depends on the situation), I cast the arrow either on a melee DPS or a castor DPS depending on the situation (if it’s one boss, I usually cast it on a melee first, if it’s a big trash pull, then usually a castor like BLM), but I also like to alternate so everyone gets “turns.” XD Balance I use for DPS as well. If a tank is having a hard time aggroing, I might give them the balance instead in hopes that hitting harder = aggroing (like DRK), but I’m not sure if that’s actually “correct.”
I will RR ewer and spire for an AOE buff (which you get). So, if I RR either of those and I get another card like Bole and I know there is a hard hitting aoe coming up (like within the next 30s or so), I’ll use an aoe bole to give everyone bole. In other cirumstances, aoe spear, aoe balance, aoe spire (if most members are TP based and are struggling with TP), etc. I find that WAR usually could use spire whenever I run with them, and PLD can often use it, too, but not always (sometimes they could use an ewer because flash and whatnot, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually cast an ewer on a PLD /thinks. Never use Ewer on DRKs. It doesn’t typically work because of one of their stances)
Spear and Arrow give addition time when RR and this RR is one I rarely use because I usually have dilation, but it can be especially nice in junction with ewer or spire, though I’ll use it with other cards as well.
Basically, the cards require you to adapt. Make sure you keep drawing and keep using them, don’t hold onto your cards for 5 minutes+ at a time. Try not to keep any card in reserve for a while, even if it’s an ewer. Part of your MP management is not just using your assets like ewer, but it’s also pausing from casting spells when you need to and when you can afford to to replenish your MP. So, you don’t necessarily need Ewer. Use it in the moment if you get it and need it, don’t hold onto it for long.
When you get into the 60’s/70, there will be additional factors to think about for your cards, but you’ll get the hang of it by then. -
10-23-2018, 04:30 AMGemina
1. Diurnal sect AST will need to rely on their co healer to shield the TB. What you should do as Diurnal AST is make sure Aspected Benefict is up, and immediately heal it up with Essential Dignity. If ED is not up, then your next best option is to precast Benefict II. I actually practice the timing on this soloing mobs with casted AoEs that sting a little. A tip given to me that has been very helpful.
2. Not much else for me to offer in regards to CU. I do recommend taking advantage of the server tick change they have made to this and all healer bubbles. It allows you to weave it, and if you see a moment that your group is huddled up enough, you can toss a potent regen net around all of them nearly instantly. You can also extend this effect with Celestial Opposition if you feel you need to.
3. For certain content, you can enter the instance with a loaded deck. How this is loaded is probably the preference of the AST. One might like to have Lady of Crowns, another might like to have Lord. Most will probably want Lord of Crowns, Balance or Spear held, and AoE RR. However in battle, what you do with the card you draw is totally dependent on what is currently going on and your party's composition. There are a myriad of situation/card combinations. It really is too tough to try and write them all out. However, I do have a different way of looking at it based on Draw abilities:
If you already know what each card does and are familiar with the tooltips of your Draw abilities, then it is all about putting two and two together and doing it quickly. Don't be mistaken though. This is not a priority list, and just what feels to me to be the natural checks I go through when drawing a card. As an example: if I draw a card, my next action could be to use it, redraw it, RR it, or hold it. It just depends.
Using Draw: Drawn card is used immediately if anyone is in need of the card drawn. Example: Bole is drawn and a player is in need of additional defense.
Using Redraw: Used if the currently drawn card is not desired. If you're the gambling type like me, you might even decide to use it on a desirable card for a more desirable card. Example: Drawn card is The Arrow. "Eff it! I'm going for The Spear or the Balance!" *next drawn card - The Spire* "Gawd freakin' dammit!"
Royal Road: Used immediately if the burned effect is desired. Most AST go for AoE, but I advise to see situations for the potency and duration buffs as well. The Spire is an immediate burn for the AoE buff, but take The Ewer into consideration before you burn that one. Burn The Bole if you desire the potency increase, and The Arrow for the duration buff. I wouldn't ever burn The Balance or The Spear.
Spread: Used immediately if currently drawn card is desired for latter use. These cards are almost always The Spear or The Balance, while consideration is given to The Arrow and to an even lesser extent, The Ewer. The CD begins after using or un-spreading the card held, so choose wisely. This ability is key to giving different card effects to different party members, which is also something to consider over a RR buff.
Minor Arcana: The frustrating redraw situation I wrote about above? Thank you Minor Arcana! Lv66, you took too long to get here. This ability is still fairly new to me though, and I am still working with it.
That leaves Sleeve Draw which I don't have access to yet. But from my experiences with the other draw abilities, I believe I'll have a firm handle on this ability already once it's available. -
10-24-2018, 05:03 PMAlrin
I use Sleeve Draw mostly in two situations.
1) After RR Spire/Ewer for quick balance/spear AOE if situation is right
2) When problems snowball and I or my cohealer are out of mana with lucid on CD. Then I pray to RNG for enhanced/extended Ewer with Lady in Minor Arcana as bonus.