The Aetherophysics of Soul Shenanigans (4.4 SPOILERS)

Solus zos Galvus's behavior in 4.4 has caused a lot of speculation (and moreover confusion) about just how in the seventh hell soul shenanigans even work...

...Assuming, of course, the primary concerns aren't facilitating

• comprehension of a casual viewer
• character and cutscene team's job

...whilst inhibiting...

• data miners
• people who know Elidibus's 50-height Midlander is not at all compatible with Zenos's corpse unless his armor is a magitek exosuit with stilts in the damn shins...

But I digress.

So let's go over some known examples and see what we can see.

Feedback and speculation encouraged.

Known Examples of Soul Shenanigans

Lahabrea (2.00)
The Ascian overlord anchors himself to an emotionally-frail Thancred with a Crystal of Darkness, temporarily subduing his soul and wearing his usual outward appearance. In the end, we sever the connection between their souls, (fleshless) Lahabrea flees to the interdimensional rift through the Crystal of Darkness, it shatters, and he has to go get another one, presumably...?

Black-Masked Soldiers (All the Time)
Have gained immortality but (in spite of having large, purple, bipyramidal crystals similar to our Crystals of Light) do not seem capable of either escaping to the interdimensional rift or possessing living hosts. They merely transcend death and pass to a nearby corpse to rise again until such a time that they cannot do that within a given limit causes them to perish forsooth. The fact that an Ascian possessing Tristan's brother could be identified as Kahedin suggests there is no transformation.

If I had to guess, these are just Source-born mortals twisted by Darkness and granted the "Dark Echo".

Elidibus (2.1)
Comes in fleshless form to the Waking Sands, attempts to possess Minfilia, fails due to the Echo, writes it off as a Well, obviously. moment. He is not seen by Tataru, he is seen by those outside. This suggests a fleshless Ascian can be seen and unseen at will.

Wuur aka Sahagin Priest; aka Sahagin elder (2.1)
Sahagin awakened to the Echo and thus gained immortality. Attributing this transcendence to "the Emissary", Wuur would, upon the death of his mortal frame, transcend into a soul orb, dematerialize his previous body, transmigrate into the nearest living mortal, and transfigure that body into one that looked and spoke like his own. Lacking the ability to escape into the interdimensional rift, Wuur was consumed by Leviathan while a soul orb (an aetherial state).

Nabriales (2.5)
After the host is defeated, an aetherial cloud appears, out of which manifests fleshless Nabriales (like when Lahabrea was expelled from Thancred). Fleshless Nabriales looks exactly like his host, which he promptly dematerializes. Explanation not provided.

The Warriors of Darkness & Unuhalhai (3.0-3.5)
Appear to be transmigrated soul orbs manifesting in mortal form.
Capable of interacting physically and magickally with the corporeal world.
Banri Oda has declined to comment on whether they are possessing corpses (or worse, were transmigrated now-deceased living hosts).

Elidibus Possesses Zenos's Corpse (4.0+)
Elidibus possesses Zenos's coprse, taking on his appearance. Though Elidibus speaks to Varis while possessing Zenos in 4.0, the game (deceptively) displays Elidibus as a 50% height Midlander Hyur, not even close to Zenos's true proportions. A still-frame in 4.4 tries to handwave this.

Zenos Possesses a Resistance Fighter (4.3)
Status of Resistance fighter unknown. Did Zenos's soul get infused into a corpse? Did Zenos transform the corpse into himself and the game is being deceptive with character models as in the 4.0 stinger? (Notice the eye color.)

Solus zos Galvus Returns (4.4)
Outward appearance of a young Garlean man. Varis kills this host body, and fleshless Ascian Solus appears, identical in appearance, nearby. Occam's Razor suggests Solus zos Galvus at some point in his life, transcended the flesh and became an Ascian soldier, but was not anywhere near was weak as the standard black-mask. Solus would then have transmigrated into a living body which he transfigured into himself.

I can think of several alternative explanations, including but not limited to: Solus zos Galvus died long ago and was possessed and replaced by an overlord who is choosing to continue appear as him, or lived much of his life and died possessed via a Crystal of Darkness by an Ascian who is choosing to continue to appear as him, or Solus zos Galvus was a low ranking Ascian and has been promoted to Lahabrea's station, etc. "New Revelations" get thrown at us too often to be confident of anything, right now.

Suggested Layers of Soul Shenanigans

Original Soul Orb
Default immortal state of Source mortals; transcendence of the flesh.
In this form, Ascians seem to have the capacity to be deliberately seen or concealed.
In this form, Ascians generally go unnoticed by virtue of Echoless mortals being unable to fathom that they are there.

Transmigrated Soul Orb
Soul orb from another dimension.
Crosses dimensional boundary via Crystal of Light/Darkness.
Whilst dimensionally trespassing, seems to experience more limitations than Originals.

Corpse Possession
Soul orb occupies and reanimates dead host anatomy.
Does not change appearance of host anatomy.

Mortal Possession
Soul orb overpowers living host anatomy with Crystal of Darkness.
Host soul temporarily muted.
Does not change appearance of host anatomy.

Mortal Transmigration
Soul orb occupies living host anatomy.
Host soul destroyed or cast into the sea.
Host anatomy is reconfigured as desired by transmigrated soul.

I feel like we'd be remiss to ignore Elidibus' gifting of the Echo to the Sahagin Priest in 2.2. However, the bit about Mortal Transmigration does seem to fit everything we learned from that encounter.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

I feel like we'd be remiss to ignore Elidibus' gifting of the Echo to the Sahagin Priest in 2.2.

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What? He's right th—Oh.

I seem to have missed a copy-paste.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Known Examples of Soul Shenanigans[INDENT] Lahabrea (2.00)
The Ascian overlord anchors himself to an emotionally-frail Thancred with a Crystal of Darkness, temporarily subduing his soul and wearing his usual outward appearance. In the end, we sever the connection between their souls, (fleshless) Lahabrea flees to the interdimensional rift through the Crystal of Darkness, it shatters, and he has to go get another one, presumably...?

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Are you sure his Crystal of Darkness shatters? I've been under the impression their crystal worked like a phylactery since they have abandoned their physical form. The only crystal of darkness I remember destroyed is the one of the nameless Ascian at level 15 (the encounter before the <city state's> emissary. I also thought that auracite was use to prevent them to return to their crystal once defeated..

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Elidibus (2.1)
Comes in fleshless form to the Waking Sands, attempts to possess Minfilia, fails due to the Echo, writes it off as a Well, obviously. moment. He is not seen by Tataru, he is seen by those outside. This suggests a fleshless Ascian can be seen and unseen at will.

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I wonder if there's some limitation to their flesh binding. As far as we know, overlord don't body hop much often; they seems to stick with an host in fact. Also: why don't kill Varis and use him instead, why bother convincing him?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Wuur aka Sahagin Priest; aka Sahagin elder (2.1)
Sahagin awakened to the Echo and thus gained immortality. Attributing this transcendence to "the Emissary", Wuur would, upon the death of his mortal frame, transcend into a soul orb, dematerialize his previous body, transmigrate into the nearest living mortal, and transfigure that body into one that looked and spoke like his own. Lacking the ability to escape into the interdimensional rift, Wuur was consumed by Leviathan while a soul orb (an aetherial state).

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See, here I thought he just didn't had time to act, that the primal just grab him mid air a bit like the auracite can mop up a close-by fleshless ascian.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Zenos Possesses a Resistance Fighter (4.3)
Status of Resistance fighter unknown. Did Zenos's soul get infused into a corpse? Did Zenos transform the corpse into himself and the game is being deceptive with character models as in the 3.0 stinger? (Notice the eye color.)

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Wait what? Is there any confirmation the true Zenos is still alive? The elzen at the end of 4.3? It makes sense, but that would imply that Zenos is also an ascian, which I find a little bit tooo convenient.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Solus zos Galvus Returns (4.4)
Outward appearance of a young Garlean man. Varis kills this host body, and fleshless Ascian Solus appears, identical in appearance, nearby. Occam's Razor suggests Solus zos Galvus at some point in his life, transcended the flesh and became an Ascian soldier, but was not anywhere near was weak as the standard black-mask. Solus would then have transmigrated into a living body which he transfigured into himself.

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That rise the question: why the old man died in the first place? Why give up the old man's body: he was the Emperor after all? Is there a freshness limit to a corpse?

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Are you sure his Crystal of Darkness shatters?

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/shatter.png

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Originally Posted by Ardox

I wonder if there's some limitation to their flesh binding.

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No idea. Though Wuur hopped twice in 5 minutes right after getting the Echo, so, I wonder how severe the limitation could be, lol.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Also: why don't kill Varis and use him instead, why bother convincing him?

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I was wondering that myself. Then again, while I can see where maybe an Ascian would want to be in direct control of forging a great empire from a tiny republic, running the day to day while you're trying to cause a Calamity sounds annoying.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

See, here I thought he just didn't had time to act, that the primal just grab him mid air a bit like the auracite can mop up a close-by fleshless ascian.

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Originally Posted by Y'shtola

The Sahagin ascended to an immortal state, but he did not possess a Crystal of Darkness through which to flee this realm. Thus was he consumed by Leviathan.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

Wait what? Is there any confirmation the true Zenos is still alive? The elzen at the end of 4.3? It makes sense, but that would imply that Zenos is also an ascian, which I find a little bit tooo convenient.

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We're talking all soul shenanigans, not just Ascian soul shenanigans. Take a look at what this katana-wielding Resistance member says after he kills an ally, repairs a magitek, and flies away. Sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by Katana-wielding Soldier

There upon the stage I stood, prepared to take my final bow, only to find that the finale was but an intermission... Shall I use this chance to repent for my sins? Embrace goodness and mediocrity? Nay, I think not. While the one I yearn to face yet lives, the hunt must go on.

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Originally Posted by Ardox

That rise the question: why the old man died in the first place? Why give up the old man's body: he was the Emperor after all? Is there a freshness limit to a corpse

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There are a dozen answers for the how. Perhaps we're being led astray and it is an Ascian wearing a mockery Solus. Perhaps Solus presented himself as aging and growing sick. Perhaps this Solus is presenting himself otherwise. Perhaps Solus didn't become an Ascian until later and can choose to present himself how he wants. A lot depends on unknowns.

As for the why, the Ascian Solus claims he did whatever he was told to do by Elidibus. The death of the Emperor paved the way for the second invasion of Eorzea and the use of the Ultima weapon. If it weren't for the Warrior of Light, another Calamity would have hit already.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

• people who know Elidibus's 50-height Midlander is not at all compatible with Zenos's corpse unless his armor is a magitek exosuit with stilts in the damn shins...

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Ohhh yes. That annoys me so much. I realise that changing his model would have given the game away, but it still just doesn't make sense for internal consistency.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Zenos Possesses a Resistance Fighter (4.3)
Status of Resistance fighter unknown. Did Zenos's soul get infused into a corpse? Did Zenos transform the corpse into himself and the game is being deceptive with character models as in the 3.0 stinger? (Notice the eye color.)

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What was in the 3.0 stinger?

Anyway I think they'd simply avoid showing us his face if they were trying to be deceptive. (At least I hope they would.)

Instead it has what seems to be the very deliberate shot of Zenos's smirk on this unfamiliar face.

I used the character data to build an 'unmasked' version of him in the character creator (link). If it is his "true" appearance and not a placeholder, perhaps Zenos was able to transform the body somewhat towards his original appearance or perhaps it's just that at a character design level, they wanted him to still look somewhat like the original.

It's also possible that the face is correct but that the character is Garlean rather than Elezen.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Solus zos Galvus Returns (4.4)
Outward appearance of a young Garlean man. Varis kills this host body, and fleshless Ascian Solus appears, identical in appearance, nearby. Occam's Razor suggests Solus zos Galvus at some point in his life, transcended the flesh and became an Ascian soldier, but was not anywhere near was weak as the standard black-mask. Solus would then have transmigrated into a living body which he transfigured into himself.

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I think an equally simple possibility is that the living human Solus was possessed by the Ascian (now also calling himself Solus) early in his life, but that didn't prevent him from physically aging.

But yes, overall I think it's too early to be making any definite guesses as to what exactly happened. Just hang on and enjoy the ride. :D

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Originally Posted by Iscah

What was in the 3.0 stinger?

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A typo. :o

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think an equally simple possibility is that the living human Solus was possessed by the Ascian (now also calling himself Solus) early in his life, but that didn't prevent him from physically aging.

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This is true; I thought I'd accounted for this possibility in the OP but it assumes he was dead before possession. This need not be true. It's equally possible he was just dark crystalled by an Ascian that is now (for some godsforsaken reason) still self-presenting as him.

"My word, this data!" (Nice write-up!) Thanks for laying out some ideas / discussion of how it (possibly) works - some circumstances like how the WoD got to the Source (and more recently, Solus' deal) confused me. Do any of you have some thoughts on how these might apply to us WoL / echo users?

Oh also, since I started with a quote from Aulus, now that soul extraction is not just a boss mechanic but a very threatening msq plot point, any thoughts on where that might fit in or work with the other kinds of 'soul shenanigans'?

I think it's worth noting that we've never seen a case where someone has "become" an Ascian naturally. The closest example would probably be Wuur (Sahagan Priest) and maybe Zenos. But both of those were arguably "gifted" Ascian-like powers by pre-existing Ascians. Maybe it's just me, but it feels like we're overdue an explanation for how someone becomes an Ascian in the first place.

All the Ascians we've met so far have been Ascians for long eras of time to the point that most of their identity is wrapped up in them being Ascians. Solus is the only one where his identity seems to lie elsewhere. Now, that might be just because he spent so long being Solus zos Galvus that he Became the Mask so to speak. But that still leaves the problem of why he decides to look like Solus after he's done possessing him. I can also see him identifying as Solus zos Galvus because that's who he is. He might not have been an Ascian long enough to mainly identify as an Ascian yet as opposed to who he was before he became one.

I'm hoping he may be the Ascian from whom we finally find out how people become Ascians. He might also be a good candidate to learn why people decide to become Ascians. Is it because Zodiark told them something? Is it because Elidbus did? It is just because they want to create chaos and don't really care who they're working for? None of the other Ascians we've run into have told us why they think Zodiark is who they should be siding with (even Elidibus hasn't done this; if he's only pursuing balance, why did he decide to work for Zodiark and not Hydaelyn?). That's another thing I think we're overdue to learn too...

One also has to wonder to what degree a host's nature and personality influences an Ascian, especially if they are a living host for a significant period of time. It might explain Lahabrea's recklessness and arrogance as well as Solus' fondness for the arts. Or it could simply be that the personalities they display are wholly their own. In which case, that suggests a significant degree of free will - and one has to wonder if we could, at some point, reason with an Ascian. If so, my guess is that Elidibus would play such a role. Given the Ardyn vibes I'm getting from Solus, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if his actions end up going against Elidibus' plan. Especially since he shows a measure of contempt towards both Elidibus and Lahabrea...whilst also claiming to have been 'rudely awakened' from a state of slumber.