Short Version: I honestly think that the whole idea behind Conjurer is gone, and that we should just let it go. When I say idea, I'm only referring to the bit that cutscenes refer to often that we are somehow masters of the elements. If I'm not mistaken, the French name for conjurer is very similar to Elementalist in meaning. While the lore is beautiful, it really doesn't sit with the current class anymore. However, I don't want this to degrade into another "OMG SE YOU SCREWED UP THE LORE" thread, or a QQ about how I miss the full elemental wheel. I just want to say that it's time for SE to cut their losses (the beautiful lore that was written) and give Conjurer a background that makes sense.
Reasons:
I was just perusing over Gild's post of the Class actions, and was taken aback by the description of Conjurer.
What? I realized a lot's changed since launch, but that's kind of... not what the lore says. Quoting the official site,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildrein
Given Gild's post, it seems that Conjurers no longer command the elements, but simply "posses some skill with elemental magic" and devote their lives to healing and enhancing magic. Though this healing/defense magic could be created by the methods outlined above, I think we all know that wasn't the intention of the lore team pre-launch.Quote:
Conjury calls upon elemental forces present in nature and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings. A wand or cane made from unworked wood is then utilized to focus the aether until it manifests as the desired spell. The seat of the Conjurers' Guild lies at the Stillglade Fane in Gridania, where the voices of Eorzea's elementals are said to be most powerful.
I'd hoped (and still do) that White Mage would only be one path that could be chosen from Conjurer, and that we could also choose to embrace our more elemental side--that could still happen, and I hope it does. The truth for now, though, is that Conjurer is no longer an elemental mage, but pre-White Mage. Aero was a White Magic spell early in the series, and I don't remember Stone being anything but Petrify before XI (correct me if I'm wrong, because I probably am). Giving those two spells to Conjurer hardly make it any different than, like I said, pre-White Mage.
I'm alright with Conjurer being the new WHM, because I realize that we needed a healing class. But they've made their choice. The problem is that my Conjurer quests don't involve erecting powerful wards around Gridania (though my GC quests do...) or healing the sick. They instead focus on learning to listen to the elementals and wildings. Apparently only earth/wind/water(?) elementals will talk to me anymore, though.. We're supposed to draw in energy around us, not the energy inside people. That was supposed to be Thaumaturge. I don't care what happens, I just think we can all agree that something needs done for 2.0
Can we just scrap the idea of Conjurer already?
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02-01-2012, 07:58 PMMychaelCan we just scrap the idea of Conjurer already?
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02-01-2012, 09:37 PMKitfox
Is there something spefic in the game quests that points to Conjurers being the only elemental cannons? As far as I've noticed they're just people who communicate with the elements. But then again, I haven't done all the CNJ related quests to know, which is why I'm asking. Would the game lore feel that broken, if you knew nothing about the old CNJ abilities?
At this point, I don't think you should be so hung up on the old (official site) descriptions of the classes and just accept the new direction. I hope they update the character creation screen with the new descriptions for coherence, so that people don't have mixed expectations based on outdated information. -
02-01-2012, 09:48 PMHiirNoivl
The easiest way to correct this Lore problem is have the Conjs lose some of their favored relationship with the elementals. Problem solved.
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02-01-2012, 10:08 PMRhomagusAnd to change the flash site description as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
I agree with Mychael that there are lore-class inconsistencies and that they should be attended to but it doesn't need a major overhaul just some tweaks here and there. -
02-01-2012, 10:13 PMSoukyuu
There are a lot more inconsistencies in the class quests themselves, like NPCs instructing you to use the appropriate element to defeat each elemental... 7 of them. Right. WE ONLY HAVE 2, SE!
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02-01-2012, 10:21 PMRhomagusThat's pretty funny. That would need to be changed as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu
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02-01-2012, 11:25 PMCoglin
OP, why should we rebuild a perfectly good class around your desires, because you feel it doesn't mtch the lore. Especially when your copy cating a copy cat who copied a copy cat by making the 5,286th thread on the same topic.
Doesn't it just make more sense for them to adjust the lore. Especially since we have already had devs responses to this topic and they clarified the solution to come.
Not to mention that conjurers still fit perfectly into there class description as well. -
02-02-2012, 01:51 AMSoukyuuChanging the lore is what needs to be done, yes. Though IMO that would mean scrapping the whole Gridanian storyline (INB4 "who plays that one anyway"). A much more logical solution would have been allowing CNJ to either branch into WHM or BLM, while letting THM branch out to ... idk, RDM and BLU? Instead they changed the whole image of a class and screwed up it's lore as well as the story of one of the city-states.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
Though that has been beaten to death in several long, whinny threads on fire so.... let's just say they need to change the lore. -
02-02-2012, 01:12 PMKlive
Granted I avoid talking about lore on these forums since I know how badly this can go, but if I had to venture a guess I think the lore will have a reset.
SE is resetting the world, in 2.0, and lots of in game content with it. Yoshi has already shown the maps for 2.0. Lots of the NPCs and quest will probably go with that. The current lore for the mage classes does not match up at all, not even remotely. The main story quest in U'ldah has you talking to the THM guild about communing with the dead and resurrection.... but now THM throw elemental nukes. So I agree the mage lore probably needs a reboot and I think it probably will get it. -
02-02-2012, 02:29 PMMychaelWait a second. Did you even read what I said, Coglin? I didn't say anything about "rebuilding a class." The idea behind conjurer was a mage that commanded the elements. That's not the case any more. So I think we need to stop trying to have this two-fold deal where Conjurer's lore says we master the elements and Conjurer itself is just White Mage with Stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coglin
Ordinarily I appreciate your posts, Coglin, so please don't let me down with personal attacks about how I'm asking for a class redesign based around my expectations--I'd much prefer a post about your expectations, and how they differ from mine. If you could link to the dev posts it would be greatly appreciated because not all of us have twenty-four hours a day to read every forum post, and while the Search function is there, it's a lot easier to make the 5,286th on the same topic and eat the flames that come with it. ^^
Adjusting the lore would be easier than simply scrapping the entire thing, but it will be difficult to do. The entire Gridania storyline largely depends on the Conjurers' abilities to communicate with the elementals, so even the minor adjustments we're talking about would seem to have major implications--Twin Adder quests, Main Story quests, sidequests, just the dialogue from random NPCs--it almost seems like it would be easier to make Conjurer (and the associated guild) not playable, and just change the name of the playable class.