Issue with "Performance" emotes for Bards.

What worries the most as a music producer, is the fact that if I want to play a song, I should be able to play it without the fear of being banned.

Making covers of songs is not illegal. What really is weird is that cover songs are covered in fair use. I'm not making a profit off of FFXIV cover songs. I also do not need rights to use a certain instrument to make cover music either.

Square Enix seems too worried about "possibly being sued", but if u are going to allow bards to play music in-game, then why are u restricting it?

Other games that utilize playing an instrument in-game, also does not req. u to play only their songs. There is literally nothing illegal about playing a cover song. This is why street performers aren't sued on a daily basis.

We are essentially street performers in a virtual world, except we don't collect tips for display. There shouldn't be any rules about what songs u can and can't play, nor risk being banned for it.

Covers actually fall under "Derivative works" as part of Fair Use, so it isn't against copyright or anything to perform them or even post them online.

However, SE is a Japanese company and Japanese copyright law is ridiculous and companies like AVEX are completely INSANE about throwing out copyright claims at people that even remotely seem to be copying their work.

I know that the ToS update is most likely just a SE "covering their butt" from a legal angle but the threat to ban users for playing covers of third party music is incredibly concerning. Why even bother putting the ability to play anything in the game if you're just gonna tell people they can't play anything but FFXIV music or original works. Heck, we can't even play the three THEME SONGS because they're the property of Nobuo Uematsu. It's confusing and weird to me.

Except none of these players are making cover songs. It isn’t fair use within a video game. They don’t want to end up paying royalties to another company. The law is very vague and needs a lot of technological updates. Until then, companies have to protect themselves from lawsuits. All it takes is one major player like Taylor Swift coming in and saying “You’re using my song within your game” and it is over for SE. Best not to poke the music giants.

Okay, before this particular topic jumps out of hand, Square specifically said that they don't mind you performing whatever for personal use. It's the uploading that Square is particular about. We should be fine as long as people don't record and upload stuff. It was said in the Letter from the Producer for 4.1.

A basic emote for a Bard to play a lyre with some generic music, I could understand. But between them making this emote so detailed that bans are possibilities and how many other problems in the game that need fixing, it begs to wonder why this emote should even exist in the first place.

It's like they're not even trying in the "Shiny Object" department anymore....

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Okay, before this particular topic jumps out of hand, Square specifically said that they don't mind you performing whatever for personal use. It's the uploading that Square is particular about. We should be fine as long as people don't record and upload stuff. It was said in the Letter from the Producer for 4.1.

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Except the Materials Usage License update states otherwise:

"In relation to any functions within the game which allow you to perform virtual musical instruments (“performance actions”), you are strictly prohibited from performing the music of any third parties. You hereby warrant that your performance using the performance actions will not infringe the rights of any third parties and you shall indemnify us in respect of any breach of such warranty."

It then goes on to discuss uploading and recording, but this is specifically stating that its prohibited to even perform third party songs whatsoever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Okay, before this particular topic jumps out of hand, Square specifically said that they don't mind you performing whatever for personal use. It's the uploading that Square is particular about. We should be fine as long as people don't record and upload stuff. It was said in the Letter from the Producer for 4.1.

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Makes sense

Sadly you can bet one of the first few things people will do will be streaming this.
I suppose if they cover FF songs (that actually belong to SE and not Nobuo Uematsu the individual) or other SE property, those are probably safe - they're not going to sue their own players over SE music.

But that'll last all of maybe a few hours.

After all, if it were me (and if I somehow felt like totally violating rules), I'd totally do the mario song :D

Please consider that Japan, USA, EU, Britain and Canada all have different music copyright and fair use policies, MMOs have been sued over play created content, and that streams and recordings of FFXIV gameplay are automatically licensed to SE.

Fair use protects you from the music giants but will not protect SE as technically you are not playing a cover song, you are directing SE's servers to play a song that they may not own nor have the license to reproduce. This is what SE's legal team is worried about.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

Except the Materials Usage License update states otherwise:

"In relation to any functions within the game which allow you to perform virtual musical instruments (“performance actions”), you are strictly prohibited from performing the music of any third parties. You hereby warrant that your performance using the performance actions will not infringe the rights of any third parties and you shall indemnify us in respect of any breach of such warranty."

It then goes on to discuss uploading and recording, but this is specifically stating that its prohibited to even perform third party songs whatsoever.

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Is that right? Let me ready this real quick...something about that sounds fishy.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

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Pretty much this, and unlike LoTRO which has a similar system SE is based in Japan where fair use basically does not exist as we know it. They /have/ to do this to cover their butts because the DMCA allows copyright holders from across the globe to go after offenders in any country that signed the act. Plus with Japan's laws being what they are, it could be a legal nightmare for SE to deal with. So yes, do it by all means, but be careful where you do it. It wouldn't surprise me if someone ended up playing in a city state for fun and ended up getting punished because someone else recorded them and posted it on the web.