I tried my hand at doing a rework pass for Dark Knight based on feedback I have read on these forums and what I would personally like to see changed.
My focus was to address the concerns that I have seen brought up fairly consistently which include: needing a bit more dps, needing a bit more mitigation, forced double-weaving of DA and OGCDs, "useless" skills such as Dark Passenger, "passive" enmity generation and ability/skill synergy.
My general approach to address the above issues was to implement numerous smaller changes such as recast timer adjustments and the adding of additional effects to abilities that provide a greater trade-off of resources to reinforce the resource management game-play of DRK. In addition there were a few abilities that received a much greater rework to get them to fit into the greater design, such as Dark Passenger, Sole Survivor and Living Dead.
Below I have included the abilities and traits that I have altered including in RED a summary of what was changed and with some comments on my reasoning in BLUE.
Anything not listed below can be assumed to be unchanged.
NOTE: I may come back and make some edits to this initial posts, especially with my reasoning for changes, so it is still technically a work in progress.
ABILITIES
Unleash - Lvl.6 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 2s – Cost: 800 MP – Range: 0y – Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 45.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity.
MP cost reduced from 1080MP to 800MP. Potency reduced from 50 to 45. Taken off the GCD.
The focus of these changes was to do two things; first I wanted to provide a stronger identity and purpose to Unleash since Abyssal Drain virtually overwrites it once obtained. Second, these changes make Unleash a good enmity generator that can be woven into the basic flow of GCD combat.
Syphon Strike – Lvl. 10 - Weaponskill
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 60TP – Range: 3y – Radius: 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 - Dark Arts Potency: 240
Combo Action: Hard Slash - Combo Potency: 250
Combo Bonus: Restores 2400MP.
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 390
Dark Arts Combo Bonus: Restores 3200MP.
Dark Arts fades upon execution.
MP restore made independent of stance. Increased MP restore from 2400MP to 3200MP with Dark Arts.
Making the MP return the same whether in Grit or not was to boost out of Grit damage, where DRK suffers the most in regards to DPS. The boost to MP when DAed was to provide a reason to choose to Dark Arts this over Soul Eater by providing a slight potential resource bump in MP.
Power Slash – Lvl. 26 - Weaponskill
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 50TP – Range: 3y – Radius: 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 - Dark Arts Potency: 240
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Syphon Strike - Combo Potency: 300
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 440
Dark Arts Combo Bonus: Increased enmity.
Dark Arts fades upon execution.
Added standard +140 potency bonus from Dark Arts to ability. Bonus enmity multiplier from Dark Arts would be lowered slightly to compensate for greater potency.
It made little sense to me why the Dark Arts potency bonus was missing from this weaponskill, so I added it. Lowered enmity modifier for Dark Arts slightly to help balance out the greater potency.
Grit - Lvl.30 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 5s – Cost: 1200 MP – Range: 0y – Radius: 0y
Reduces damage taken by 20% while reducing damage dealt by 20% and increasing enmity.
Effect ends on reuse.
MP cost reduced from 1800MP to 1200MP. Taken off the GCD. Recast increased to 5s.
Adjusted the activation costs and considerations to try to make it a bit easier to swap back into while still retaining a cost for balance reasons.
Blood Price - Lvl.35 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 40s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0y – Radius: 0y
Restores partial MP when damage is taken.
Additional Effect: Restores 1200MP immediately and another 200MP over time while in battle. Increases Blood Gauge by 1 immediately and another 4 over time while in battle. Delivers an attack with a potency of 40 every time you suffer physical damage.
Duration of 15s.
Can only be used under the effect of Grit.
Effect is canceled if Grit ends.
Added additional MP gain by restoring 2400MP on use and 300MP per tick over 15 seconds for a total of an extra 3600MP. Added additional effect of doing a 40 potency attack to attacker when struck, similar to the additional effect of Vengeance.
Just a note, the numbers I currently have for the additional MP refresh are placeholders for the moment. I need to do some tests/get more info before I can find numbers that I am happy with. Basically I want the additional MP refresh to help provide more parity with resource gain between Blood Weapon and Price while making it not underpowered in single-target and not overpowered in huge packs. I am also debating on extending BP's duration by 5s to help with the disparity between BW and BP.
Soul Eater – Lvl. 38 - Weaponskill
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 50TP – Range: 3y – Radius: 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 - Dark Arts Potency: 240
Combo Action: Syphon Strike - Combo Potency: 300
Combo Bonus: Absorbs a portion of damage dealt as HP. Increases Blood Gauge by 10.
Dark Arts Combo Potency: 440
Dark Arts Combo Bonus: Increases Blood Gauge by 20.
Dark Arts fades upon execution.
Removed Grit requirement for HP absorb. Increased Blood Gauge gain from 10 to 20 with Dark Arts.
Removed the Grit requirement for the HP restore to make it more in-line with Storm’s Path in terms of self-sustain. Added the additional Blood gain when DAed to provide an additional reason to choose to DA Soul Eater over the adjusted Syphon Strike by providing a slight boost in resources in the form of Blood. Essentially a slight boost in MP when DAing Syphon Strike, a slight boost in Blood when DAing Soul Eater.
Dark Passenger – Lvl.40 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Range: 10y – Radius: 10y
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 120 to all enemies in a straight line before you.
Additional Effect: Lowers the damage dealt by 6% for all enemies hit for a duration of 15s.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Darkside.
Dark Arts effect and Blind effect removed. Recast changed from 30s to 60s. MP cost removed. Potency increased from 100 to 120. Additional effect of 6% reduced damage dealt by enemies hit added. See new trait Devouring Darkness for additional effects.
With Dark Passenger being a nod to Dark Knight's iconic Darkness ability, I wanted to make it something cool that was an integral and interesting part of DRK's kit. Originally I had it have a MP cost equal to one DA and doing a flat 150 potency with a 10% damage down effect which seemed fine at the time. However after reading feedback and opinions on the forums it seemed that a lot of different people wanted different things from the ability. The one that really resonated with me was that some wanted it more evocative of the iconic version where it would be a devastating attack but cost HP to use. I along with many others feel that a tank ability that cost HP to use would likely not fly but at the same time that got me to thinking about the concept of sacrifice for power. That is when the way SiO worked caught my eye and I thought something like that may work, where you sacrifice the closest thing to HP that would work, your own personal defenses, give it a more offensive twist with the potency boost while retaining the damage down effect for party utility, tweaked the numbers (still up for debate of course) and I arrived at something that seemed pretty cool. I'm still somewhat uncertain whether I want to keep it the way I currently have it with the "empowering" mechanic tied to a separate trait that you get later or to just lump it in with the base ability.
Shadow Skin – Lvl.42 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 60s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0 – Radius: 0
Reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 10s.
Replaces Dark Mind.
Really this is virtually nothing more than making Dark Mind not damage-type dependent and removing the Dark Arts effect. I just wanted the name change and preferably bringing back the Shadowskin animation because I felt the Dark Mind name no longer made sense and I felt Shadow Skin worked better as a name since it created a bit of a naming convention and thematic identity for defensive abilities being associated with Shadow or Darkness, ex: Shadow Wall, The Blackest Night, new Dark Passenger, etc.
Shadow Wall – Lvl.46 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 120s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0 – Radius: 0
Reduces damage taken by 30% for a duration of 10s.
Recast reduced from 180s to 120s.
Reduced the recast timer to give it better parity with Vengeance. Kept the duration at 10s instead of increasing it to compensate for the other boosts to defensive capabilities, such as the new Dark Passenger and Shadow Skin.
Shadow Form – Lvl.50 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 300s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0 – Radius: 0
Each attack that hits you has a 50% chance of doing no damage and most attacks cannot lower your HP below 1 for a duration of 10s.
Additional Effect: Restores partial MP when damage is taken based on the damage amount.
Replaces Living Dead. Visual effects to utilize the black and red flames with red glowing eyes effect that was featured in the Dark Knight job quest.
Plunge – Lvl.54 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 30s – Cost: 0 – Range: 20y – Radius: 0y
Delivers a jumping attack with a potency of 200.
Cannot be executed while bound.
Increased range to 20y. Animation/ability execution speed increased.
Abyssal Drain - Lvl.56 – Spell
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 1200 MP – Range: 15y – Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to target with a potency of 120 and all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity.
Dark Arts Potency: 190
Dark Arts Effect: Absorbs a portion of damage dealt as HP.
Added Dark Arts potency boost. Reduced cost from 1320MP to 1200MP.
Sole Survivor - Lvl.58 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast:80s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0y – Radius: 0y
Increases the “portion of damage absorbed as HP” effect and the “MP restore” effect of abilities for a duration of 15s.
Effect changed from a percent of HP and MP restored on target killed to increasing HP and MP restore from weaponskills. Recast lowered from 120s to 80s for better syncing up and synergy with other abilities.
Essentially this change was made to remove the requirement of having to kill the target to get the HP+MP restore while trying to give it a bit of a unique feel to it as opposed to a “push button get resources” ability like Equilibrium. The “HP returned” boost would double regular returned amount. The “MP restore” boost would be +1200mp per ability use (not targets hit in the case of Quietus) ex: a regular Syphon Strike restores 2400MP, under the effect of Sole Survivor it would restore 3600MP.
Note: Originally I had this affect weaponskills only, so things like Abyssal Drain would not be affected, however since the WAR changes and being able to do IR Steel Cyclone Spam, I decided to make it affect all abilities.
Carve and Spit - Lvl.60 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast:60s – Cost: 2400 MP – Range: 3y – Radius: 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 450.
Additional Effect: Increases Blood Gauge by 20.
Base MP cost added. Potency set to 450. Dark Arts effect removed. Blood Gauge increase added.
Quietus – Lvl. 62 - Weaponskill
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 50 Blood – Range: 0y – Radius: 5y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 160 to all nearby enemies. - Dark Arts Potency: 230
Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Grit.
Additional Effect: Restores own MP.
Blood Gauge Cost: 50
Dark Arts fades upon execution.
Increased Dark Arts potency boost from 50 to 70. Changed level learned from 64 to 62. Ignores Grit damage penalty.
Blood Spiller – Lvl. 64 - Weaponskill
Cast: Instant – Recast:2.5s – Cost: 50 Blood – Range: 3y – Radius: 0y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 400 - Dark Arts Potency: 540
Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Grit.
Dark Arts Additional Effect: Absorbs a portion of damage dealt as HP in Grit. Restores 1200MP when not in Grit.
Blood Gauge Cost: 50
Dark Arts fades upon execution.
Added additional Dark Arts effects of HP drain while in Grit and MP restore when out of Grit. Removed separate potencies for Grit and simplified by making it just ignore the Grit damage penalty. Changed level learned from 68 to 64.
Delirium - Lvl.66 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast:80s – Range: 0y – Radius: 0y
Restores MP.
Additional Effect: Resets recast timer for Blood Weapon and Blood Price. Increases the additional potency provided by Dark Arts by 50% for 15s.
Additional Effect changed from adding time to Blood Weapon and Blood Price to resetting their recast timers. Additional Effect of increasing Dark Arts potency boost for 15s added. Changed level learned from 62 to 66. Removed Blood cost.
TRAITS
Blackblood - Lvl.62 – Trait
Allows for Blood Gauge accumulation while under the effect of Blood Weapon or Blood Price and upon the landing of certain actions.
Combined Blackblood and Enhanced Blackblood.
Devouring Darkness - Lvl.68 – Trait
Dark Passenger dispels Shadow Skin, Shadow Wall and The Blackest Night, increasing potency by 40 and damage down effect by 3% for each effect removed.
Replaces Enhanced Blackblood. Level learned changed to 68.
My Rework of Stormblood Dark Knight
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11-15-2017, 07:52 AMTouchandFeelMy Rework of Stormblood Dark Knight
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11-15-2017, 10:14 AMInfiniDragon
I like nearly everything you suggested. Only thing I would do personally is make Bloodspiller HP drain out of Grit also for more mitigation since let's face it, most DRKs won't be in Grit single target.
But these are good changes, IMO. -
11-15-2017, 10:34 AMTouchandFeelThat was actually an intentional decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniDragon
I wanted to create a slightly different feel and style between tanking in Grit versus out, so I gave being in Grit a boost to HP self-sustain, reinforcing a slightly sturdier and and more consistent state, while out of Grit provides an edge on MP generation which can be used to fuel TBN shields for defense or you can risk eschewing a layer of defense to gain the reward of pushing more DPS.
So Grit was reinforced as safe and steady while out of Grit is more risk / more reward.
Also, I did a lot of weighing and comparing between the tanks and since IB is Defiance only, I felt it only fair to Grit-lock DRK's big-hit HP drain ability too. -
11-15-2017, 06:22 PMArianeEwah
I agree with most of those changes.
For some I actually had the same idea, like this PS change. It's current DA enmity multiplier should be x2 iirc. If it's changed to x1.5, it would still be an increase of 10% in enmity (which DRK is lacking off-stance) and 47% more damage from PS. Off to a better start.
Also, combined traits are far more reasonable than its currently the case.
Have you thought about just removing the '-dmg penalty' on Blackblood skills - Quietus and Bloodspiller? Or would this be too similar to WAR?
Some points tho:
Blood Price: It doesn't even refill enough MP for 1 DA. Intended? Why?
DA-enhanced AoE (Quietus + Abyssal Drain): On 2 targets you have already an increased pot of 150, compared to single target 140 pot. In general AoE is and should really be worth at 3+ targets. Maybe a DA increase of 60 instead of 75?
A 'lil nitpicking on Bloodlust trait: Aren't there enough traits with 'reduce [ability] recast time by x seconds upon execution of [action]'?
My biggest concern here is the Unleash change.
It's not its mana cost or potency, but having it oGCD on a 2 sec recast CD so early in the game.
There are only 3 more classes/jobs in general that get their first damage-dealing oGCD at level 6.
MCH - Heartbreak; RDM - Corps-a-corps; ACN (SMN/SCH) - Energy Drain (Aetherflow I).
All their oGCD have a recast CD of 30+ sec and/or only work under certain conditions. -
11-15-2017, 08:51 PMChrono_Rising
I think I can get behind most of these changes except Shadow Form. Having an RNG tank ultimate means that it cannot have a planned used like the other tanks which puts us at a hefty disadvantage.
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11-15-2017, 09:22 PMTerkhev
Some ideas are good, but some are simply OP. For example DA Syphon Strike: it gives more mana than it costs, meaning you'd always use it with DA without any exception. It's not choice anymore and pure buff to dmg and mana.
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11-16-2017, 01:12 AMTouchandFeel1) I did think about that but since it pretty much already works like that I just felt like it wasn't a change that I had to really make. I have no strong feelings either way for keeping it presented as it currently is or changing it to be presented the way it is with WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArianeEwah
2) Good catch. Those are just placeholder numbers that I plugged in for now. I need to do some testing to get the numbers I feel good about. The basic premise though is that I want to use that little extra MP refresh to bring Bloodprice gain closer in parity to Blood Weapon, particularly in single-target situations.
3) I actually struggled internally about those and the potency numbers for some of the other AoEs for a bit, however I eventually got past the "only a gain at +3 mobs" thing for the following reasons: first off the DA potency boost and it being balanced between single and multi target is a uniquely DRK thing and it is a self-imposed limitation really where we have decided it has to be that way, I tried to rebalance the damage taking the changes that I made to Unleashed into account and lastly I was trying to adjust the potential of Quietus' damage to be more in line with Steel Cyclone and Decimate.
However with all that in mind, I would not be really opposed to having the potency boost be 70 so that it it breaks even at 2+ instead of being a slight gain.
EDIT: The more I think of it, the best solution may be to boost Quietus' base damage since it is pretty low and then reduce the DA boost from what I currently have proposed.
4) Yes, that is somewhat true but WAR is the only one of the tanks that currently has a trait like that. Overall I feel that a trait like this is more defined by what it is reducing the recast timer of as opposed to the fact that it is reducing a recast timer. It may sound the same but feel and play vastly different depending on the ability and how it fits into the kit.
I did however bounce between a few different potential traits before settling on this one, so I am open to any suggestions you or others make. I might need to adjust the recast timer of Delerium down though to compensate if the trait changes.
Hmmm ... sort of silly but potentially fun, what about a trait that increased DRK's movement speed while under the effect of one of their Job defensive abilites (Shadow Skin, Shadow Wall, Shadow Form). Sort of like NIN's trait but more limited. Wouldn't give a direct buff but would add mobility which could help with some mechanics. Anyways just riffing.
EDIT: Ooohh ... what about something like this.
Dark Celerity - Lvl.68 – Trait
Movement speed greatly increased while under the effect of Dark Arts.
Replaces Enhanced Blackblood. Level learned changed to 68.
It could be almost like you get a free sprint in the window between popping DA and using it. Normally would be of little use since you would be in melee range anyways, but would be useful for re-engaging enemies after knock-backs or dodging large AoEs if Plunge is on cooldown. I think it sounds fun and unique.
5) I am not too worried about it being a low-level OGCD with a low recast. Since DRK is location gated in Ishgard, you already need to be lvl.50 with a job and to that part in the story and DRK starts at lvl.30. Hopefully by that time, a player should be able to grasp how to use such an ability and be able to handle it.
As far a level-synced low-level dungeon, I don't feel it would be that different than what already happens with just spamming the ability.
I see your concern, however I feel that it is just as predictable for planned use as Holmgang.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising
I actually came up with the ability by combining Hallowed and Holmgang, which initially resulted in an ability that gave 50% reduction and you couldn't drop below 1 hp. I thought that was boring, and so tried to see where I could tweak it to make it more interesting and more fitting for DRK. Since I was going with the idea of the Dark Knight assuming a "Shadow Form", the idea that an attack may just pass straight through the Dark seemed interesting which then led to changing it to a 50% chance to not take damage when hit, which generally should result in an approximation of 50% reduction (if measured over a long time). However this introduced, as you pointed out, RNG to the ability and so I felt that I needed to add something in to give you back something if the RNG gods decide to make a sacrifice of you and so that is why I added in the MP gain when damage is taken.
At worst the ability results in a longer Holmgang without the root that gives you a hefty chunk of MP back but has a longer recast than Holmgang.
At best you just got a Hallowed and the recast is shorter.
Most times though it will likely be somewhere in-between.
In regards to Syphon Strike, yes it is a buff to MP generation and therefore to damage which was the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terkhev
Standard Syphon Strike already restores the amount a DA costs which would mean it breaks exactly even when DAed currently. My change only provides a net bonus of +800MP which would equate to a single extra DA or TBN every three DAed Syphons, which would be most likely at least three full rotations if no other GCDs like Bloodspiller are thrown in. That is one extra DA approximately every 20-22.5 seconds if you DAed every Syphon. I do not feel that is OP when the fact that DRK is lacking in dps compared to the other tanks is taken in to consideration.
I avoided doing potency boosts to buff DRK's damage and instead chose to increase what fuels their damage, their resources, in order to promote the usage of and synergy of the abilities in DRK's kit. -
11-16-2017, 01:37 AMBourne_EndeavorThe OP can correct me if I'm mistaken, however I interpreted the RNG aspect of Shadow Form to be more of a bonus. Basically, it could work like Hallowed Ground (No damage whatsoever) or Holmgang (Reduced to 1HP).Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising
As for the abilities themselves, I rather like everything you've proposed except Shadow Skin. It's essentially a second Rampart. Not a bad alternative per se, though my own thoughts were to overhaul the Dark Arts effect to be party wide mitigation. If I may borrow your format:
Dark Mind – Lvl.42 – Ability
Cast: Instant – Recast: 90s – Cost: 0 – Range: 0 – Radius: 0
Reduces damage taken by 15% for a duration of 10s.
Dark Arts Additional Effect: Reduces party damage by 10% for a duration of 10s
Increase the CD to compensate for the additional benefits while giving DRK an answer to Shake it Off and Passage of Arms. -
11-16-2017, 04:26 AMTouchandFeelYou are correct in your interpretation of Shadow Form. I provided a detailed explanation in an above response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
The redesigned Shadow Skin is indeed very similar to Rampart.
I actually tweaked it to to be a weaker but more often available general cooldown, trying to push DRK's defense kit in the direction of having more, lower protection abilities that are more readily available thus creating a more active, more flexible but also a bit risk/reward based defensive kit. You could spread them out to get more consistent fluff damage protection but the big hits will hurt or you could stack and overlap them to get greater protection for busters but leaving you more vulnerable in the gaps that you chose to create by stacking them. At least that is generally what I was sort of going for.
I chose to strip out the DA effect from it because of my goal of getting rid of double-weaving, so if it was an OGCD like defensive cd's are then it lost it's DA effect or just had it and the cost baked in. Since using TBN with Dark Mind was better than DAing DM, I didn't feel that it was much of a loss. Also, in a ways I sort of kept the DA effect around by decoupling it and giving it to the reworked Dark Passenger but just like you did made it a party-wide defensive. Since Shadow Skin and Dark Passenger's recasts are the same, they could be lined up to work just like your proposal for DAed Dark Mind, however with my implementation there is the freedom to use them separately as well.
Oh and the format is just copied from the official SE Job Guides. -
11-16-2017, 05:49 AMshao32with i like it per se Dark mind is a strong part on our magic mitigation, is what make us on par to the other 2 at least on magic, so increse the recast and make it aoe shield can be more a punishit that a help, i will keep it at 60 seconds bcs we dont have enough CDs to compensate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor