Why Do People Complain About Summoner?

Summoner flows really well, imo.

Everything you do is locked behind Aetherflow, so you'll be working in 60 second increments and within said increments you flow through 2-3 phases, Rouse.. DWT.. Bahamut. Once you understand that the class flows extremely well and works in ~20 second increments.

Summoner also is currently the 2nd highest DPS at the 50-99% range in FFLogs in Savage, with only Samurai above it. If you include the raid dps increase via Radiant Shield, a 2% phys damage debuff that potentially lasts 24 seconds and is on a 60 second cooldown, and the raidwide Devotion buff (2% for 15 seconds on a 2 minute CD) they are easily ahead of Samurais in DPS. They also are MUCH more mobile than BLM and arguably RDM (Dualcast makes every other cast instant whereas SMNs can make use of ruin 2 at what is now only a 30 potency loss compared to 50 before via Ruin 3), do better damage than BLM and RDM, have better utility than BLM and RDM (BLM virtually none, while the rDPS increase Devotion, Contagion, and Radiant Shield bring outweighs those that Embolden brings), and can also resurrect allies now that we are overflowing with MP every 60 seconds because Swiftcast is no longer needed to use a Ruin 4 proc during Bahamut phase... 1 rez a minute should be fine if your group knows the fight.

In other words, SMN flows very well if you understand the class, has the best DPS and utility of all the casters by a solid margin... ESPECIALLY if you take into account their rdps increase via said utility, AND is very mobile. I don't understand why people are continuing to complain about Summoner. Even before 4.1 SMN was in a great spot, but now? Geez man we are insane.

I think the real problem with the class is that it requires thought.

SMN's personal DPS is not higher than BLM's one. The percentile graph is not accurate given there are too little SMN's parses compared to other DPS.

SMN's rDPS is alright. Probably better than monk, rdm while below Bard, NIN, DRG and MCN.

Their mobility is very good but also compromised by a relatively strict Bahamut's phase.

Overall the class is like a jack-of-all-trade with its utility and damage package. I think it is where it should be.

Because if you die, your dps is gone forever. They eased up the MP and summoning penalties but Bahamut will still be gone for at least 2 minutes. While they actually made steps against that for DRG, nothing changed for SMN in that respect.

People complain about many valid aspects.

For Example, Since Aetherflow is locked behind Dreadwyrm trance, if a summoner accidentally pressed Aetherflow, with full dreadwyrm stacks, they put back bahamut a minute, and lose no less than 1300 potency. This makes it clunky when most other classes were specifically changed to not have a roadblock. Warrior and Dragoon were specifically changed to make them perfectly smooth. Like keeping Warrior's gauge even if they switch stances or changing life od the dragon to 3 stacks.

Summoner was also the only class that could have 30% of their dps be killed by raid wide damage, with no way of healing their pet after sustain was removed. Bahamut being glitchy, obscuring player views, and prioritizing movement, (Mostly fixed, but people complained.) Bad Pet Ai. (Such as pressing Contagion and getting frustrated that Pet has thrown off their timing by having a delay on actually casting it.

Then complaining about how drastically Summoner's gameplay changed between heavensward and Stormblood. Losing Bio 1 & Ruin 1. Then they become a Ruin mage more then anything, instead of balancing dots and ruin phases or squeezing in two festers under dreadwyrm trance and Raging strikes to maximize dps. You Just throw your dots up, and ruin till the cows come home.

Or Devotion being a single target buff that doesn't go to targeted players, instead being more like a roulette, and having a large cooldown despite being a very weak ability.
Sooooo. Quite a large amount of changes, with questionable design choices. All in all? Lot to complain about when the class plays completely differently. Went from sneaking in as many ruin 3s, then turning a 180, and doing things like spamming ruin 2 to get as many wyrmwaves as possible.

For progress I went RDM and for farm I had mixed feelings, honestly with the changes I have to say now with a mapped fight I'll definitely go SMN again !
But for a discovery clearly the class remains too tricky with the lockouts, when you have to think about mechanics as well.
So really happy with the patch, just be done with lockouts and fix Bahamut IA (even if it means nerfing it) and it will be the most enjoyable class to play.

What if instead of preventing lockouts they made the class derp-proof by preventing the use of Aetherflow entirely while DWT was active? Removing lockouts would substantially nerf the flexibility of the class and could possibly screw the timers of SMNs.

Summoners work in phases. You activate Aetherflow pre-pull, activate Rouse, go into DWT asap (it takes 5 GCDs minimum), finishing DWT phase > Aetherflow > DWT > Rouse > Aetherflow+Bahamut > DWT > Rouse > so on and so forth. If Aetherflow is back up for some odd reason when you are ready to enter DWT (shouldn't happen, but in the very unlikely case it does...) then you can make use of the free tri-disaster reset, end DWT early with a Deathflare, then either enter Bahamut if that is ready OR use the stacks then enter DWT again asap. If you entered Bahamut, as soon as Bahamut is over you can then use the free tri-disaster you get from entering DWT before your previous tri-disaster falls off.

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Originally Posted by Music4Therapy

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i don't want to be mean but you don't have to tell how smn works nowadays - fact is that smn changed more than any other cls through-out all the big expansion (maybe Brd/Mch on pair) thats why many are frustrated if learned/masterd things got changed all the way. me personal kinda like the lockout system and don't want aether skills open again while dwt BUT yeah they should fix the possibility to use/press aetherflow in dwt at all. yeah that way im with the ones who complain bout "lockout" but on the other hand I really, really like the dwt timer gone so no I don't want HW-aether skill system back like so many are asking for.... the possibility to hold trance "as long as you want or the situation demands it" is one of the best changes with 4.0 but isn't noticed while asking for the lockout-removal/backroll... q.q

Though its a difference to say this cls flows if you don't know or played it in ARR or/and HW or if you took your hand on it in SB for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Neela

i don't want to be mean but you don't have to tell how smn works nowadays - fact is that smn changed more than any other cls through-out all the big expansion (maybe Brd/Mch on pair) thats why many are frustrated if learned/masterd things got changed all the way.

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Its fine!! lol.

And I can respect that. I was a MCH main in 3.x and I strongly disliked the direction they went with MCH in 4.x so swapped to SMN despite all the complaints about it because I thought the changes looked really interesting. I didn't like the design of SMN in 3.x, it didn't appeal to me. Seemed moreso focused upon damage-over-time as opposed to the playstyle I like... which is cycling through phases and optimizing burst. Which is the kind of class SMN is now. And I have been very happy with the class, the numbers are great, its flows well, and is fun to play. Many classes were changed dramatically with the release of SB, though its the SMN community that confuses me the most.

That said, I do 100% agree with your assessment that is also why I am in favor of the lockout but would accept the compromise of disabling Aetherflow altogether while DWT is active.

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Originally Posted by Music4Therapy

And I (...snip...) swapped to SMN despite all the complaints about it because I thought the changes looked really interesting. I didn't like the design of SMN in 3.x, it didn't appeal to me. Seemed moreso focused upon damage-over-time as opposed to the playstyle I like... which is cycling through phases and optimizing burst. Which is the kind of class SMN is now. And I have been very happy with the class, the numbers are great, its flows well, and is fun to play.

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This also could have come from me ^^

I started on Brd in 2.0 after I finished ARR MSQ I swapped main to smn/sch and never left smn since than through all the ups & downs - and yeah i kinda liked all 3 different episodes of the eorzea-summoner. that being said I think I was one of the less like you who already liked the 4.0 summoner way - now with 4.1 I like it even more although personally I would just have had used the pvp-profil (mechanic wise not pot wise) for pve as well... *dream* - but never the less I can understand most of the complains although they don't seem that critical to me. The only thing which bothers me is that Bahamut still acts like he's on dope... if it comes to moving : (