Holmgang - How often do you use/abuse it?

Heyo, been a War since 2.0, even a bit in 1.0 as Marauder, but I digress.

Not a stranger to Raiding, and I know there's some pretty nice ways to abuse Holmgang, but during a discussion with some friends, it was suggested I should use it more often than I do currently.

For example... in V4, I use it for the double thunders, because... no tank swap is usually a good deal. Outside of that, it's almost exclusively my O-shit button.

In V3 it was suggested I should be using it for Hali for critical hit, but I've never really found it necessary or a gain to do so, though this was the topic in reference.

Usually on the pull I use Thrill/Conva (helps upheaval dps), and Awareness/Raw for the first one. Vengeance + Rampart for the 2nd, and pretty much just alternate those two throughout the entire fight, and unless HP is low for some reason and I need a save, HG is mostly on idle as an o-shit button. Thrill gets kinda used as a quick heal at tehe tail end of book phase and randomly throughout.

It was suggested that using Holmgang would make it easier on healers, and save on healers and using my cooldowns intermittantly through the fight for normal stuff. This seems to be a flawed theory to me... since I as long as I'm above 24k hp, I'm pretty safe the whole fight, and require less recovery during tank busters.

Any thoughts?

If you have a WHM in your party, discuss with your WHM and let him/her know when you are going to Holmgang in advance so you can coordinate together. Holmgang and Benediction both have 3 minute CDs so they can always be paired together.

Without a WHM, SCH should be able to Excog/Lustrate you. AST may have a harder time without Essential Dignity/Lady of Crowns.

Yeah, I get all that, though it's not really my question. The question is more about using Holmgang every other Critical Hit in v3 vs mitigating it and being pre-shielded etc. And whether holmgang and being brought from 1hp up would be better for healer dps than mitigating it and being recovered.

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Originally Posted by Steady

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Yes using Holgang is better on the criticals if it's coordinated with your healer.
They don't have to pre-shield you or spend GCDs to top you up, nor do they need to immediately heal you. It's more GCDs both healers can spend DPSing.
Also, that frees up CD you can use elsewhere in-between Crits.
I don't think you should aim to use Holmgang as much as possible, but you should use it when it's most valuable in a fight.

Instead of using Holmgang to cheese Critical Hit you are using Rampart and Vengeance. This means that you can't use Rampart and Vengeance to mitigate damage during other phases (Folio, Spellblade Holy, or Mindjack for example) and are actually putting more stress on your healers in the long run.

Embrace Holmgang.

I like to use holmgang in dungeons when i'm playing with my healer buddy. Say I do a huge pull and they need time to set up HoTs and such, then I holmgang and they have a decent buffer until they bene me. works out great.

As said above, its only useful when worked out so the healers dont have to stop DPSing, because of abilities like benediction.

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Originally Posted by ScotchyScotch

Instead of using Holmgang to cheese Critical Hit you are using Rampart and Vengeance. This means that you can't use Rampart and Vengeance to mitigate damage during other phases (Folio, Spellblade Holy, or Mindjack for example) and are actually putting more stress on your healers in the long run.

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All of those are AoEs, and the healer is going to AoE everyone for the same amount of lost HP. mitigating that dmg is only making them over heal you. (its why you stay in DPS stance)
its better for the basic auto attacks inbetween, so they can DPS longer (which wouldnt be much, but every GCD is better than not having it.)

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

All of those are AoEs, and the healer is going to AoE everyone for the same amount of lost HP. mitigating that dmg is only making them over heal you. (its why you stay in DPS stance)
its better for the basic auto attacks inbetween, so they can DPS longer (which wouldnt be much, but every GCD is better than not having it.)

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In all of O3S, the most dangerous moment is immediately after Folio+Stack when the tank takes an auto that can, if it crits, end the tank despite being topped off before the mechanic. Just last week Xeno got leveled by this exact move during one of his streams. It has happened to me enough on WAR to warrant a cooldown to assure a clear. Likewise, a red circle Spellblade Holy with a pre-crit/post-crit can also take a 50k tank to near zero during the final phase. O3S has a bunch of situations where if the tank is unlucky, a couple crits can end you. Rampart and Vengeance make those dangerous moments much smoother.

In o3s/o4s it's part of my cooldown rotation.

I had been usisng it pretty much just for 04S, adn using it in 3S just as an o-shit button, but I might play around with it a bit more this week.