Older Content

I am really Bummed out that i never had a chance to do certain types of older content while it was still relevant and now the only way to get to experience it is to undersize the content and blow right through it without effort. Also to even get a undersized party, let alone a party willing to do it the hard way is near impossible especially because there is no real incentive for there to be any parties like it even in cross server party finder.

Would you would think its a good idea to have older end game content in a limited format for like a monthly/biweekly reset where players can run older end game content at relevant item levels(so its challenging) for end game rewards? I never really got to do final coil the hard way, or savage midas, or some of the primals due to the constraints put in my real life(and real life takes priority over any game) There are many new players who think that this game has a wealth of content but then they get to end game and its always the same 1 or 2 primals, and 4 savage fights, not a lot of choice.

It genuinely feels like a lot of older content is a lot of fun and that there is no way to go back and experience it the way that others have, even though they just started getting into the game. It feels like just because some people are sick of the content that others shouldn't get the chance to have the same experience as them and do these awesome fights in their prime for reasonable reward for their efforts.What do you think?

Friends/like-minded people....

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Originally Posted by Kaizencorr

Friends/like-minded people....

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Would people do expert dungeons nearly as much if latest tomestones only gave you glamor? Maybe once in a great while, but the que times would be atrocious with no incentive. Also some of these fights are really hard, so you need to add incentive's to keep players doing them. Since these fights are hard, it's not enough to simply rely on friends or like minded individuals especially when you don't have a lot of time to play, so your heavily limited on time per week and heavily reliant on party finder. I was hoping SE could add something in to increase the reasons to do these fights so players can continue to see it as a relevant part of end game, while not stepping on the toes of current end game. Hence the Monthly reset idea.

I wanted to wait before responding to the thread but i seen this excuse used a lot, as if it was an actual viable solution. The whole point of this thread was that it has been very hard for me to find those types that see it as worthwhile to even attempt the difficult content because there little to no reward to spending effort on progression content when there is no actual endgame progression or incentives. The problem is that lack of reasons for people wanting to do it and they rather spend their limited time because of repsonsibilities(kids,work,family functions etc.) on something that helps increase their item level than not.

A few thoughts here:

1) We already have more incentive to do those older fights at all: Khloes weekls WT!
2) While I do understand the desire of new people to properly experience those fights as someone who has farmed most of them when they were current content I have to say: Please, just let me move on! At somepoint I dont want to backtrack anymore. I wouldnt touch the Raid/Ex-Primal stuff in WT if it wasnt for unsyching them. I know this sounds harsh but: personally, I'm done with those fights on a weekly/monthly basis. And if there were unique rewards I would simply grab my old static again do it as often as we had to to get those rewards and be done with it again.
3) This content - at least the raids, not so much the EX-primals, granted - has been static content. I'm not sure how aware you are of the difficulty of those raids when done syched, maybe even with minimum ilvl and without echo (aka: the real, proper way). Some of them dont allow for mistakes by anyone in your party. They're not content that you can queue for in DF - not only because no one is doing it currently but also because the fights require you to know and/or learn them. Thats not (always) done within two or three pulls - try two or three hours... or evenings (...or weeks if you have a party full with "blind-runners") - so you'll kinda have to find likeminded players either way. Thats not a cheap excuse, its actual good advice.

Personally, I'm doing this content the "proper way" from time to time with like minded people that I met over the years - we want the challenge, so we're doing it for the challenge. No extra rewards needed (even though: there is one, at least for the most difficult fights that reward music - 100% droprate for 4 scrolls), we're just doing it for fun. And I know my stance is very selfish here right now, but: I'd like to keep it that way. And I know that will change as soon as you put something worthwhile in there again.
The whole thing is a little tricky: To much backtracking is bad; we're already having lots and lots of bonus-rewards from there that were added later; if you want to do it properly you'll need a "static" anyways; if they add a reward that can only be obtained there you'll see all the old static rises again, get their stuff and let the content die again - if the reward is just something like bonus tomes most people will think twice wether or not they want to Coil again or just stick to their expert-dungeon ones a day.

We also need to take into account here that a lot of people simply arent intrested in raiding no matter the reward and that there is also good chunk of people who have been playing for years and who dont want to go back again and again and again... I fully understand your desire to see this content for the first time but since you've asked for thoughts here are mine: I dont want to "have" to do this content again to get rewards. I'm done with that. If I go back in there, I want to be because I want to play said content (lots of the fights are great, love them!) - not because I feel like "uurgh... they added something new and now I have to do T9 again... great, and people still dont get meteors..." (I know I dont actually have to do anything and could choose not to - but since you, OP, would actually want me to go back in there, let me tell you: I dont want to.)

TL;DR.: You'll need a group of like minded people either way and personally I'd prefer this content to be something you're doing for fun and a challenge now rather than be turned into something that you farm for rewards again.

Edit: If you're intrested in raiding now I would suggest looking for a regular static for Omega and convince those people that one hour a week of Coil/Alex/Old Ex-primal could be fun! Thats waht I would do at least. However if you dont want to raid after all, I can only repeat myself here: if you want to do those fights properly (and by that I also mean: do them with 7 other people who would have to learn them in theory - not getting carried by 7 people who know what they're doing) it wont be done in two pulls. You HAVE to comitt to a static or like minded people for this content, aka you actually need to be intrested in raiding to a certain degree for those fights, if done properly. If you're not you're better off unsyching them either way.

I don't really want to respond to every post but you put so much effort in i feel compelled to respond, this will be my last post for a while.

I really see where you are coming from and i respect your upfront honesty... however i really see it as pointless to not use the previous WELL DESIGNED content to its fullest potential. I do not favor SE constantly throwing out old content in favor of new content, i really want SE to find a way to keep most...if not all previous raid content somewhat relevant. Not because i really want to force people who have no interest in doing old content in doing something they don't want to do.... but rather i would like to share my previous experience as well as enjoy technically new challenging content with people who are old and new allowing people to truly enjoy this thematic well designed content together.It feels like a waste to make it not relevant by allowing people to undersize everything and making entire mechanics and ways of doing the content obosolete. The reason why your so sick of doing it in the first place is because people were forced to only do such little content over a long period of time. Which is in itself a problem which makes a good number of people tired of doing it, and it feels like regression instead of progression because of the problem of having such little content to do in the first place! It's honestly a a downward spiral because of the lack of content making the appeal of older content less appealing to veterans. So i can totally see where your coming from when you say you don't want to do it.

WT is a joke, and everyone undersizes everything they can.Also WT doesn't offer any level 70 type rewards only some of it's items are good(MGP bags,Minions) but most of them out of date(tier V materia,old crafted HQ gear) and meh at best.WT is not a solution its just there to make people run the same normal mode content and undersize content over and over.

However, even if some people do not want to do it that's respectable and i would like to find a idea that makes both camps happy. It's very hard to find like minded individuals amongst the already small population of raiding already, and i think the population of raiding would increase if we were able to have more options and not be doing the same exact fights until the next level cap increase and at least can break up the monotony. My idea would have maybe every month have 1 EX primal and 2 Savage Raids for that month and you can get maybe a special hand in item that can get you various current end game rewards, such as catalysts for best in slot battle craft gear or maybe a token from current savage or something akin to that. You can still get it from omega savage, but getting that extra token or crafting material for something really good that you can't put on Market board and need to request a crafter to make some best in slot piece, or really good tier VI/VII materia that has special properties that you can also get through hunts and other content like omega savage(not cracked clusters, something more expensive centurio-wise like you would for gear upgrades.)

To just simply have more avenues of achieving the same results and having a few "Blasts from the pasts" challenge fights to do every month would actually make most players quite happy since you wouldn't really need to spam these fights that much and would probably only really need to clear 2 out of 3 to cap.That would be my ideal vision to help it fix the lack of content at end game and it make it feel more robust.To increase the library of content with each expansion which maybe be more attractive to players from other games who missed out on previous content and can now come over to this one and feel like they haven't missed out on anything and incentivize more hardcore players to join this game. God only knows how many times i wanted to play other mmo's but i would feel mostly lost joining a game after missing so much feel like i was not getting what i was paying for.No one would say you have to do these monthly fights, but if one fight you found particularly fun or it met your fancy it would be something to join once in a while when you got sick of omega/current primal progression.

Having an option there doesn't automatically mean you have to do it, it is really a optional choice if you clear omega at all then and got some gear drops, then these extra monthly rewards could help you gear alternate classes, maybe to avoid people from seeing it as necessary, you would have to choose a reward you haven't already received 4 of(and no tokesn for fights you haven't beaten yet) to prevent from people seeing it as necessary to do as normal progression so you could still get a savage token, but you could only receive a max number a month based on the weekly lockouts so your limited to 4, and everything else you can obtain can be obtained from 24 man and hunts so you wouldn't be necessarily be forced to do it...just be more grindy and RNGey the other ways. The key to my idea is balancing it in a way that makes it worth doing, but still keeping it optional and having more than one way to obtain these rewards.

My goal is to get more parties to do this content since 90% of my clears for these types of content have come from PF since i never have time for a static anymore, and people who do want to do end game raiding shouldn't have to dedicate all their spare time just to beat one fight, hence why it would be around for a whole month giving plenty of opportunities to do it at your own pace, and to have a decent number of PF parties instead of having to constantly struggle to find a group of "liked minded indivdiuals" you said it yourself these fights are hard and maybe the best way is a static, however i know for a fact that you don't need a static. I also know most FC's worth their salt actually enjoy helping their FC members out in doing easier content but since their is little incentive to do harder content they wouldn't bother unless there was some incentive involved. You don't have to do it, It would be optional and if you didn't see it as optional because of the value of the rewards then you honestly need to find a better static who are not full of themselves and are such meta-edge lords that the sap all fun out of the game who would compel you to do it against your will.

TLDR: We are willing to redo most types of content in this game over and over again that are easy but the content that most people would be satisfied with and would find the most meaning in completing out of all content people are against redoing?I know it's frusrating to get bad parties but if you don't have to do it because it's setup to be completetly optional because of token limits and alternatives(hunts/24man) Why be against other people being happy with that OPTIONAL avenue existing, would you really feel like your forced to do it because there was there was some end game incentives every month that you could tackle when you wanted a break from normal end game?Do you think most people wouldn't enjoy experiencing the nostalgia of returning to all those well designed greatly thematic fights with newer FC members/friends that missed out and wouldn't bring them more together for the sake of good ole fashion fun and to occasionally be a good senpai to those scrubbles :3?? Do you really think because you wouldn't want to do it, that the LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T DONE IT have no interest because the game has more casual players?I believe more people would participate in end game if there was more variety, not less some people would be more interested in doing coil or alexander or seeing knights of the round EX fight in it's prime..not omega. Variety would increase end game population, variety is the spice of life. Thank you for reading.

There's absolutely no way to do this without increasing the incentive to do so. Right now, the only incentive comes from a once a day bonus.

What they really need is to take the Atma/Anima weapons to a whole new level and stretch it across all the content rather than just the latest. That would get far more people running the old content again.

I think PF is a totally viable method to find similar folks. Just a week or two ago there was a party looking for players to run t1-5 synced. Still had echo, and didn't min ilvl it, but, synced still offers some bit of challenge. I'm about 90% sure that group was entirely new to the raid except for myself (and I had only been through once just a week or two before). And it is incredibly amusing to watch Twintania just crush a group's momentum.

I think there's still plenty of people around that feel just the same. Skipped over the content, or always wanted to feel some of the challenge, some few that like the gear for glamours. Seen quite a few just here on the forums in recent weeks that want to run content before they've outpaced it. I myself am enjoying runs to wrap up ARR before moving on to HW.

I think all we really need is a raid roulette or something. Some means to pop the queue if people want in. But probably that would just be a disaster of people running with no knowledge just for rewards, and too many runs never being completed. Which is probably the biggest reason not to further incentivize these. Most dungeons can be cleared even with a bit of sub-par performance, players can adapt. But raids (at least the 8-man) aren't something you can queue in and expect to clear in 30 minutes or less.

Horizontal progression like FFXI had would have allowed for more content longevity. But they decided to do vertical progression. Playing this game you have to accept the fact that current content is difficult, old content can be steamrolled so you can see it, but that's not where the player base is. What's more, so many changes and balance adjustments have happened since that content, and there's even been the addition of several jobs. Because of that there is no way to go back in time to experience it like it was originally intended anyway.

Just do the current content while it's current. There are years of more content left for you to experience while it's current. And be glad you can steamroll the old stuff. We can't even see what the 1.0 content was (not that there was much to see).

Find like-minded people, and setup a dedicated LS for running old content in the manner it was originally meant to be played, or use Party Find if you don't have enough people. There's never really a shortage of players wanting to try the content, only a shortage of players with a fraction of the needed patience to experience the fun stuff, or make any progress for that matter. It would be nice if Undersized and Min iLv didn't counter each other slightly, but rather where undersized would let you enter in the fight as Lv.70 then Min iLv to reduce your iLv rather than both Lv/iLv