SMN Aggro

Someone needs to make a song based off 'Moves like Jagger'. We can call it 'SMN Aggro like Crazy'.

Anyway, SMN aggro... I'm having a real problem with this in dungeons. I'm pulling aggro like an SOB. I can't help it and I've no idea what to do to stop it. It doesn't seem to matter which dungeons I'm in (the earlier dungeons or SB dungeons.) I wait a bit after the tank pulls (never while he's gathering) before I start my rotation and I'll use one of the aggro reducers before I start if one's up. I attack what the tank is attacking I have both aggro reducer skills. I've actually had both up and I was still pulling aggro from the tank.

Has anyone else had this problem? The boss isn't so bad but trash packs is crazy. I know we've always had that problem with our AOE but it's never been so bad before for me.

I think agro formulas or coefficients were changed. I never had problems with agro as a SCH before, but now I constantly see orange markers. The first couple of times I thought that I got not very good tanks
, but it is a too common thing .

Or may be the reason for this is all that changes in tank skills. Wars lost Flash, for example, and Overpower spam costs a lot of TP.

I am pulling agro like crazy too. I mean we could stop using AoE and spam ruin, but that defeats the whole purpose of playing SMN. I try to use my agro reduce spells but they have such a long cooldown.

Hrm... you may want to use the Lucid Dream once you are about to rip the agro (or once you do), not before even attacking, since it halves your current agro built.

I think this is a 2ndary effect of Tank DPS taking a hit and DPS in general having some more bursty aspects.
We may be seeing this for a while till 1) SE boosts the agro generation even more or 2) tanks gets out of the habit of only doing 1 or 2 agro AoE skills before jumping onto the DPS stance/skills :/

Something's definitely off. I'm having the same issues between SMN and SCH. Or maybe it's my imagination...

Starting off in 4.0 as a tank and about to jump back to my first loves SMN and WHM,

As a tank you'll notice there's hate "issues" over there. Mainly DRK's and WARs who can't hold hate as well anymore especially in lower dungeons.

I don't think it's just SMN but it's a combination of everything.

So you're using Diversion, then it may be what the tank is doing. I'm overpowering a lot more compared to what I'm hearing is the norm for tanks. The game has changed, but I've had SMN's in my party and I've yet to get one that steals hate I can't get back. If I do it's because I did my AoE hate rotation and then when I went in for single target, I messed up and neglected one, which turns orange and I usually use Ultimatum at that point.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

2) tanks gets out of the habit of only doing 1 or 2 agro AoE skills before jumping onto the DPS stance/skills :/

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This seems to be the most likely option. I'm not bound by the old ways of tanking so for me it's completely new and I go into it with nothing from the previous patches saying "It didn't use to be this way!"

I'm not hitting DPS stance much at all on WAR compared to what they were doing in 3.0 it seems, but I am keeping hate and things are dying pretty damn quick still.

I'm not 70 yet, but so far I'm not hitting any of these problems these other tanks are saying on the forums. I'm not running out of TP and if I am I have zero problem asking for help if it's out there they use their TP ability.

I know "You shouldn't be running out of TP" I'm not so much, but when I am I'm using the co-operative gameplay to get some TP back. I'm not struggling to use beast gauge and I'm not having everything go yellow or green all the time. Now I am having Overpower issues on some mobs that are stacked odd and I miss one, but a quick axe throw or war tackle solves the issue.

I don't think it's really the OP's fault or anything they need to change, but from what I'm getting being a 1.0 player but picking up an entire new role in a serious light for the first time? I'm leaning towards the tanks. Because from what I'm seeing it's a whole new mind-set and not just DPS DPS DPS.

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Originally Posted by Neela

...why so ever se intention goes for that mindset : /

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Like most things, I believe it was overlooked on their end and we abused it. Take for example most of the dungeons up to level 50 you can mass pull and since healing / tanking were so easy you could just damage deal. The dungeons due to how many mobs there were encouraged it. Then the players such as ourselves enforced it to where if you didn't do massive pulls you weren't being efficient. I believe that if we hadn't been so cruel to each other on the spectrum and found a middle ground they wouldn't have touched it.

Unfortunately, the ones who demanded it and put down others who didn't caused an issue, just as much as those who didn't push the envelope just a bit just so they can be a bit lazier didn't find a common ground. Now we have one, where the 3 mobs I pulled in Dusk Vigil hurt and put my HP down. I for one enjoy it, but it's hard to get out of the mindset of gathering groups of mobs and destroying them since 1.0 ...

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Something to note: Demi-Bahamut generates enmity for the SMN, not for himself like usual pets...

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Good to know! Thanks! #protip

I plan to go back to my SMN so this helps me understand things a bit more.

Until I see otherwise, I will stick with that it's tanks needing to do more threat generation to get use to the new system. I have healers curing me and doing damage, and rarely do I see that orange. Summoners, black mages. Maybe it works differently at 70. I hope to find out this weekend!

they actually said it more than once... se wants to slow down runs and avoid mass pulls - making holding aggro tougher on tanks side is just the equivalent of nerfing dds aoe dmg... seems they are really serious bout that statement.... sadly we have to take it like it is... why so ever se intention goes for that mindset : /

Take Diversion if you go in dungeons. You don't know how your tank will perform, and you don't really need Apoc.
Something to note: Demi-Bahamut generates enmity for the SMN, not for himself like usual pets.
Also, Fester and Painflare being on a 5s cooldown also play a big role in that enmity generation.