On Primal Summoning

Just a thought I had, but..

Primals need faith and aether to manifest, right?
And since what is summoned is mostly shaped by the needs and hopes of the ones doing the summoning (through prayer and the like),
they basically influence what sort of being manifests (like how Shiva was Ysayle's idea of her and not how she originally was during her lifetime).

So I wondered:
The main problem with Primals is their hunger for aether. That's the main reason why we fight them and negotiate with beasttribes, to stop them from sucking the planet dry.
So, is it at least theoretically possible to summon a primal that is NOT hungry for aether? Since the hopes and beliefs shape the primal, after all?
Like, for example, if my cult of Nymeia was absolutely convinced she is 100% benefical and in no way hurting the planet,
if we summoned her with a few truckloads of crystals and our faith, would she not suck up aether despite staying in this world?

No it isn't possible. Being a primal is what sucks aether away. It's not that they "hunger" for aether so to speak. Their very existence causes it without them controling this or perhaps even being aware of it.

It's a facet of their existence.

See Alexander.

I think the closest you could get is an Egi of Nymeia. Aether would still be consumed but only that of the summoner and it wouldn't go around tempering people.

Even if you somehow rewrote the laws of a deiform's existence in this plane they'd putter out and dissipate without their ambient aether consumption, I'd reckon

Basically, Primals are aetheric beings; they need aether to survive, like we do air, food and water. If they don't get aether, they die (dissipate/unsummon).

You can't make a Primal not suck up aether like you can't stop breathing.

Bear in mind, however, that Ascians are the ones who teach folks how to summon, and we know that they are bad news. The whole "aether devouring" bit might be intrinsic to the nature of a Primal - or it could be something that the Ascians added because draining Aether from Hydaelyn furthers their goals. This COULD mean that there's a "safe" way to summon Primals that do not include that nasty side effect, but if there is, the Ascians aren't too likely to share that bit of info.

But no, the worshipers' beliefs about the Primal only have a very limited effect on how the Primal turns out, centering primarily around the Primal's attitude. Intrinsic things like this wouldn't be affected, no matter how hard the followers believe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Basically, Primals are aetheric beings;

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Which now begs a curious question:
Is Y'shtola a primal?

It is possible to reduce yourself to aether and travel the lifestream, that much we know - Teleport, Flow, Return etc. But how are we put back together and what are we made off afterwards? Something that, apparently, can be made to and from aether, because that's what we dissolved into to travel the lifestream. Aren't we then technically made off aether? And if so, why wouldn't we all need aether for sustenance, too?

Could A-Towa-Cant and Severains girlfriend linger indefinitely if they just consumed more aether for sustenance? And why did they not have to do that during their lifetime? Is the difference maybe just a physical vessel? But why do Shiva and Thordan drain aether too then?

What of Carbuncles, Fairies etc? Those seem to be harmless, but are clearly aetheric beings as well.

I feel it's a little less clear cut than it seems to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Which now begs a curious question:
Is Y'shtola a primal?

It is possible to reduce yourself to aether and travel the lifestream, that much we know - Teleport, Flow, Return etc. But how are we put back together and what are we made off afterwards? Something that, apparently, can be made to and from aether, because that's what we dissolved into to travel the lifestream. Aren't we then technically made off aether? And if so, why wouldn't we all need aether for sustenance, too?

Could A-Towa-Cant and Severains girlfriend linger indefinitely if they just consumed more aether for sustenance? And why did they not have to do that during their lifetime? Is the difference maybe just a physical vessel? But why do Shiva and Thordan drain aether too then?

What of Carbuncles, Fairies etc? Those seem to be harmless, but are clearly aetheric beings as well.

I feel it's a little less clear cut than it seems to be.

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Y'shtola is using her own aether to be able to see by sensing the aether around her. She's technically draining her own life force, not that of her surroundings as primals do. Matoya warned her that doing this was shortening her own life as a result.

Fairies/carbuncles/egis use the summoner's aether to manifest as well. That begs the question though, how that doesn't too drain the life of the summoner... Unless the effect is too minimal, or the summoner simply replenishes that aether.

Which leads to the question of all living things draining aether. My understanding is that the difference between primals and other life is that primals are like black holes: the aether they use up simply disappears/ceases to exist. Like how the Void is essentially an aetheric vacuum. Other life simply recycles it; though in Y'shtola's case, perhaps she is using her aether faster than it can be replenished by that around her?

EDIT: At the Shiva and Thordan thing, the summoners (in these cases Ysayle and Archibishop Thordan VII) draw the aether from around them to transform themselves into primals. In doing this they still drain and permanently consume the aether around them, because they're still primals, and that's just what primals do. :P As to why people can't linger indefinitely, perhaps it has to do with the fact that in order to permanently manifest after they have lost their physical form, they NEED to drain aether in this way... They can temporarily manifest, but with no physical anchor of their own, the aether just returns to the lifestream. Primals never had a physical form to begin with, so giving them form requires a massive amount of aether (crystals) PLUS an even bigger amount over time to remain manifested.

Well Y'shtola wasn't really summoned with aether and prayers. Her aether was found and rebuilt.

Yes we are all made of ather. Even the land has it. What you do with that aether is the difference.