Fine-Tuning PLD rotation - tips?

I know, I know. Play WAR if I want better dps.

That aside, I'm now the mt for a static and I was wondering if I could get some help to pull better numbers. Our static is kinda made up of folks who can't really fit regular raiding into their schedule, so our group comp is a little off, but I'm curious.

Given:
- Healers have requested I stay in Shield Oath 100% of the time
- We have no NIN
- The OT is a DRK
- The BLM does not have Quelling
- We have no MCH (we have a brd)

Is ~800-900 dps acceptable? These are the numbers I've been told I'm getting.

My rotation is as follows:
open with shield lob
Fast Blade - Spirits Within
Savage Blade - Fight or Flight
Rage of Halone - Circle of Scorn
Fast Blade - Bloodbath
into goring blade, then Royal Authority combos unless GB or RoH needs refreshing (for the healers)

So far, all I can think of is to use halone less, but my HP can get distressingly low if I don't keep the debuff up on the boss. I'm saving CoS to use within FoF so I get it off twice each time, and I'm not sure if that's worth doing when the cooldown timers don't line up.

I'm using Sheltron for every Scrapline except FmF, where I use Hallowed, and otherwise rotating Rampart - Foresight - larger buff/conva where appropriate.

Any suggestions? Or am I mostly dependent on the group getting more used to the fight so the healers don't cry when I turn on SwO. We only cleared as a group for the first time last week, although I've now cleared three times.

If they aren't letting you switch around stances then yes, you are stuck at that 800+ range without the BiS pieces that are coming out of the rest of savage. *As long as you're holding aggro there's not REALLY a reason to keep Rage of Halone up, so you can just focus on Goring and Authority rotations.

Not having a slashing debuff really hurts your dps and the drks dps by quite a bit what i'd propose doing is:

-Getting your Drk or you to swap to War
-Recruit a Nin not only for slashing but for threat up and threat down
-Being out of Shield Oath
-Communicate with your healers to see where the issue is

You being in Shield Oath 100% of the time with no slashing debuff you're going to stay in the 800-900 range until some changes are made or healers are more comfortable with you being in sword oath.

I would assume those you have cleared are 9 and possibly 10, so off that all I can comment is you can definitely push more than those numbers for sure, better rotation is to keep FoF before goring/ra for the most part, you want to delay your FoF during opener, the subsequent FoFs are always in consideration of the normal timing you clear and ofc your current combo you are in. You can fit 4 comboes into a FoF and you normally want to use it before your 3rd combo finisher, ra goring mostly and general rule still applies to have 2 gorings in each FoF application unless under different circumstances like bursting certain adds or boss is jumping around/going invulnerable etc.

Another thing to touch though, how are the healers struggle to heal a full tank stance PLD? Even if the healers contribute a good amount of damage, it's just too jarring that they can't keep you up comfortably. The damages coming out aren't even that high in the first place.

The best time to use fight or flight is right before goring blade. This let's you get a second goring blade out just before the current dot and fight or flight buffs drop off.

I know this addresses none of your questions, but there really is little to no point trying to rotationally optimal, when others in your group don't even have the basic requirements for their role. I mean a BLM without quelling... I can't even... you're either having to already use much more aggro combo just to hold off them, or their dps is incredibly low. From what you say, it sounds like the latter.

So while you can tweak your rotation about to squeak an extra 100 dps (? no idea, number out the air), what's the point if your blm is already doing far below what they could be doing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The best time to use fight or flight is right before goring blade. This let's you get a second goring blade out just before the current dot and fight or flight buffs drop off.

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Amendment to that: FoF lasts for 30sec. If you pop it before 1st goring, your last gcd before FoF expire is ra. FoF > GB > RA combo > RA combo > GB combo > RA combo > FoF ends. In a lot of the cases using FoF right before goring blade can be undesired, you potentially apply less FoFs throughout fights, sometimes you aren't using the full uptime like if boss dies/jumps and you have like 10secs left on FoF etc. In some fights, activating FoF at pull is a gain dps, for example a6s where you pick mine as pld or nidhogg where he just flies very quickly. It's always fight to fight and phase by phase basis.

So long as you have 2 gorings in each FoF you can consider it under the ideal circumstance, the bonus being ra buffed instead of roh which falls under that small nitpicking that nets you more potency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

So long as you have 2 gorings in each FoF you can consider it under the ideal circumstance, the bonus being ra buffed instead of roh which falls under that small nitpicking that nets you more potency.

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That's assuming he's not clipping his own DoT. Depending on his gear, the current skill speed is enough to allow a Pld to clip their DoT at ~6 seconds, barring no interruptions to the rotation. It's still a case by case issue, but it's another nit-picky thing to keep an eye on in regards to looking out for dps loss. Regardless, it sounds to me like the main problem here is more with the party synergy rather than his rotation.

Firstly, healers who are letting his Hp get "distressingly low" while rotating RoH on top of 100% up-time on Shield Oath rings a few warning bells to me, particularly the RoH part. It's hard to judge without seeing one of the fights first hand, but I have to ask why his Hp is dropping so low. There are only three possible reasons that I can think of:

(1)The tank is not rotating their CD's well enough.
(2)The healers are not anticipating the mechanics.
(3)The healers are too busy baby-sitting the dps.

If the problem is 1, then he just needs to get more practice in. There's only so many ways to fine-tune a tank CD rotation for boss mechs, so eventually he'll get it down. Once he does, he'll be more comfortable swapping stances and his healers might trust him more to do it. At the very least, he shouldn't have to rotate RoH just to keep himself alive.

If the problem 2 or 3, however, then the problem isn't with the tank. It's with the party. This is what sounds to be the main issue based on the OP's description, because, again, he should not need to be rotating RoH consistently just to stay alive. Enmity obviously isn't a problem, because they have a Drk for an OT and their dps is sub-optimal. That leaves either dps who are standing in WAY too much stupid and not scoring enough dps, or healers who are not comfortable with the mechanics of the fight yet and are letting the dmg get too far out of hand. Both of these possibilities are FAR greater dps reductions than anything the Pld can compensate for alone, so there's really not much he can do unless they fix some of the more fundamental issues facing their group. Quite frankly, it sounds like they need to step up a bit. Either that, or they need to step down and be replaced by more competent players.

Another thing that people forget is that Drk gets more dps being the MT vs being the OT due to blood price and reprisal. Even in pugs if I have a nin with a pld I tell em I'm gonna MT people have this fallacy in their head that pld is the defacto MT when they're not, any tank can be but drk benefits the most out of war and pld. Try having the drk MT and practice your dps more while being in sword oath then grab a ninja to compare that's the best I can tell you.

- Healers have requested I stay in Shield Oath 100% of the time
- We have no NIN
- The OT is a DRK
- The BLM does not have Quelling
- We have no MCH (we have a brd)

1. If your healers can't heal you without tank stance there are two options: you use your cd's not properly or they are bad. If you know how to use your cd's properly they are bad and have to learn how to heal you without tank stance.

2. Get a Ninja or keep on going with less dps from you and your OT but its still doable.

3. No Problem here even if the WAR is a better OT in general.

4. BLM without quelling is just....sorry i can only facepalm to that. Tell him to get that damn skill or kick him.

5. Nothing wrong here. MCH would push your dps a bit more but you can raid with a BRD instead of a MCH without any problems.