Flash based Addon Components - Bad idea?

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11-10-2011, 06:07 AM
DragonSlayer

Flash based Addon Components - Bad idea?

Hi SE,

I was listenin to some discussions on Aetheryte Radio the other day and caught the comment that you guys are looking into the possibility of Flash for some of the upcoming UI and Addon modding changes, Today I read this article:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/tech/mobile/adobe-mobile-flash-wired/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Apparently Adobe is dropping Flash Mobile altogether, and I would be concerned about FFXIV using flash if the entire system begins to be unsupported.

Just a thought to keep in mind.
11-11-2011, 12:23 AM
Teakwood

Them killing Flash Mobile doesn't mean a thing about the future of Flash as a whole. If anything they'll be able to focus more on the use of Flash for UIs, such as FFXIV's.
11-11-2011, 04:16 AM
Laughlyn

I really hope they stick to flash, for custom UI creation.
It's really easy to use & hopefully wont drain much of the memory.

If modders (UI modders / designers) gets a proper Flash-based UI-Mod /creation tool
it will help alot, and trust me...there's alot of of Players with UI/Mod skills around.

Myself included.

I've made a few concepts already based upon the 2.0 UI,
but dont really feel like showing them off just yet.
They're still in a "In Progress" state, and the
design isnt very much to my liking yet.

Been playing alot lately trying to rank up a few classes,
but when im done with that i'll get right back on my concepts again.

Not to show-off really, but to inspire others and hopefully
the Dev.Team to take the UI-Modding seriously.
11-15-2011, 03:44 AM
thedevilsjester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laughlyn

hopefully wont drain much of the memory.

Unfortunately, Flash and Performance are mutually exclusive entities. Its not that noticeable on a typical PC doing typical tasks (or when flash is the primary application running), but once you overlay it over a high performance game like FFXIV, its cracks will start showing. It also limits the platforms that the UI mods can be used on and adds another (3rd party) layer between your input and the actual game engine. I fully support the idea of UI modding (though I have yet to see a good UI mod in any MMO), I just wish they would use something more light weight and portable than flash.
11-16-2011, 12:18 AM
Renshi

Flash is very portable and stable, and has a good Object-oriented language behind it (Actionscript 3.0). I would be the first one to mess up with their UI add-ons =D

Well... I wouldn't say that Flash is stable with Crystal Tools, but I guess that with the new Graphics Engine (maybe called "Luminous"?) it'll be supporting it for the best. (right now in my PC if I set the shadows at Highest and play a Flash video on Firefox, the game lags whenever somebody has the Well Fed status, teleport or take supports)
11-16-2011, 02:15 PM
thedevilsjester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renshi

Flash is very portable and stable

Flash is a closed source, proprietary language. It is exact opposite of portable. As for stability, you must be posting from a nearby alternate universe because I haven't encountered a more unstable, crash prone piece of software ever.

That being said I understand that flash would be a simple, pre packaged solution to allow UI modders to make creative, unique interfaces, but I dont think its worth the price. And, more importantly, us PS3 users (and possibly 360 users in the future) will not have access to these interfaces.
11-17-2011, 12:48 AM
Renshi

Well portable I mean that Windows, Mac and Linux can support it in whichever processor they have, so who does the addons don't have to be on Windows, but can be on Mac or in Linux (I've tried to build some AS3 on Linux. You can, but NEVER TRY IT KIDS.) =)
As for stability I've never encountered problems, so I'm basing this out of personal experience.
11-17-2011, 03:57 AM
tymora

The current UI components are all XAML based. Flash probably won't even drop in the consideration box.
I don't expect this to change unless they redo the entire client.

As it is in the current state - Highly customizable, just that SE has it encrypted and has no editor for people to use.

If you have never heard of XAML, you can go run a search for it. (Related tech: WPF/Silverlight)
11-20-2011, 12:00 PM
thedevilsjester

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renshi

Well portable I mean that Windows, Mac and Linux can support it in whichever processor they have

Unfortunately this is not true as Adobe only supports Flash for Windows, Linux and Mac on x86/x86_64 processors. Though as far as Desktop OSes are concerned, non x86/x86_64 processors have such a small user base that it is not really feasible for a commercial closed source project to develop for. But this, by its very definition makes it non portable. Adobe has even recently abandoned Flash for Mobile, so all Smart Phones, Tablets, and like devices will be forever without flash, again not too portable when you consider that these devices are consuming a huge percentage of the average users web browsing.

But we are not talking about supporting on just a computer OS (if we were, your portabilty argument, while not entirely valid, would be sufficient) , but as FFXIV is slated for the PS3, and at some point (possibly) the 360, we need to consider other platforms. And with this broader view, Adobe Flash is a very unportable solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renshi

As for stability I've never encountered problems, so I'm basing this out of personal experience.

From my own experience, and that of many millions of others, Flash is horribly unstable. Steve Jobs (I am not a fan of Apple by any means, in fact quite the opposite) even called it "closed" (as in closed source, not portable), "unstable" and "bug prone". Flash is a nightmare (for end users) plain and simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tymora

The current UI components are all XAML based. Flash probably won't even drop in the consideration box.
I don't expect this to change unless they redo the entire client.

They actually happen to be redoing the entire client (see 2.0) and have stated that its likely to use Flash for user add ons. So this isnt just a unfounded fear that they might choose Flash, they have made it plain that its being considered.

At the end of the day, if there is a problem with code, I want SE to be able to dig in and fix it. I do not want to have to wait for Adobe to issue a fix, and I do not want add ons to be a PC only feature when an in house solution would be usable by everyone. I do understand, however, that SE is doing a hell of a lot of work getting the 2.0 engine ready, and them using a pre made solution for add ons would mean they didnt have to give much resources to this, but its a sacrifice that has too many drawbacks.